SHE WROTE: Friday Free For All

So on Friday, we told the PROs they could ask anything. The Q&A is below.

Oh, and if you’re reading this blog, you’re a Cherry Bomb. We were going to have a test and an initiation, and Bob wanted a secret handshake, but then we started arguing about red robes or black, and you know how we get, so if you’re reading here, you’re a CB. Unless you don’t want to be.

Really, we’re very flexible.

Friday Free for All:

How much do you think the publicity you have generated will help the sale of your book--compared to someone who didn't bother doing any promotion? Do you think it is vital for all authors to put themselves out there, regardless of the stage they are at in their career—even though most of us would rather be at home, curled up, writing, without strangers poking
at us? –

Jenny: Good question.
PR is really important so there should be a good answer here, but it's one of those "It depends" things. I think the only PR thing that every writer needs is a website. That's pretty much vital. After that, what do you like to do? I love teaching, so in the beginning I did a lot of conferences so I could do what I loved--teach writing--and promote the book subtly because I HATE selling things. Just teaching makes people get to know you and want to know what you write. If you can use examples from your work to hook readers in, so much the better, but the lesson should never be about
promoting the book; you're teaching first and always. I think the He Wrote She Wrote blog is going to turn out to be critical in whatever happens next for Don't Look Down, but we had no idea it would turn out to be what it did: We wanted a record of the year and thought it would be fun and interesting if we posted once a week, each of us, and talked about where we were, and that that might sell some books, too. I figured Bob would post a sentence--that's what he usually posted on his own blog--and I'd do my usual rif on
here's-what-happened. Instead, the same synergy that took over the book took over the blog. We're having a great time with it, but we had no idea that we'd both be so fascinated with it, or that so many people would come, or that they’d form the comment community they did (now the Cherry Bombs, which I think is hysterical) and become part of the blog, too.
We're also doing a newsletter through MyEmma.com, and I love doing that kind of stuff, too. But I hate flat out promoting, I'd starve if I had to make my living as a salesperson, so I'm terrible at booksignings. I've seen authors call out to people passing by and then make them laugh and buy their books and I have a great deal of admiration for them but I couldn't do that to save myself. If you show up at the table and ask me, I'll sign a book for you with a great deal of pleasure, but draw people in and sell them the book? Can't do it. I missed out on that gene.
All of which is to say that yes, you need to promote. But a website with good content that makes people talk about it and come to see it, with content that changes at least monthly so they come back (a blog is good for that), that's probably all you need to start. Then add the things you love doing that will help sell the book.

Bob: Promotion is both the bane of a writer's existence an absolutely necessary. My first novel came out in 1991 and I've both been enthusiastic and pessimistic about promotion over the years. This morning I spent several hours writing personal letters to a a dozen newspapers on military posts and communities around the country that I will send along with my author copies of DON'T LOOK DOWN (our Romantic Adventure, our on Monday) to help with promotion. I'll mail them this afternoon after doing a phone
interview with a reporter with a Louisville newspaper where we're doing a booksigning on 13 April. One reason I'm enthusiastic about promotion now is that I know DLD is the best book I've ever done. Co-done.
The blog is very good, but we don't know what the effect is going to be.
I really love the Cherry Bomb thing.
I am not a sales person at all. I couldn't give things away.
I've also seen authors call out to people and sell their books. I couldn't do that. I used to drive about 40,000 to 50,000 miles a year to military posts with remainders of my early hardcovers and set up two card tables, cover them with a camouflage poncho liner, put a big sign that said "Book Signing" with a special forces patch, in front, and then work on my lap top for 14 hours. If I sold 20 books it was a very good day. I had days I sold zero books. Wait. Maybe it was the camouflage poncho liner that did me in. Maybe no one saw me.

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I've been waiting for the free for all! Mr. Mayer, my first question is for you. I'm an avid reader of the He Said/She Said blog and have studied your post on writing the male point of view. I was wondering if you could expand a little more so that we women writers can get a better perspective on the ever elusive males in our stories.

Bob: Jenny and I have been discussing this a lot lately. Men think rationally and women think emotionally. I just watched Double Indemnity. I told Jenny we have to watch it together. Focus on the drugstore scene where the two leads are trying to figure out how to get out of being caught and how differently they approach things. They're both right, yet they're both wrong. And they go in very different directions. Men like to think they
can think their way out of anything and women like to think they can feel their way out of anything. And they can't understand the opposite gender's point of view. So the simplest advice I can give for writing the ever elusive Kalahari male is to drop emotion out of it and have him think linear and rationally toward whatever simple goal he has.

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And Ms. Crusie, what have you learned from Mr. Mayer about writing the male point of view that will help you when you write your non-collaborative stories?

Jenny: What have I learned from Bob?
Movement draws fire. The bullet is as important as the gun. SEALs aren't as good as Green Berets. Real men don't chat; it's what they do not what they say, especially since they don't say much. Women need a reason, men need a place (okay, I got that from a Cherry Bomb--apologies to whoever said it for not citing her name here--but it's pretty much what Bob said when I said, "Yes, but why would they have sex then? They barely know each other.")
The big things: Aristotle was right, action is character so keep the bodies moving on the page. I knew that in the abstract, but writing with Bob made me see it for real. That was huge. "Men are very simple creatures," Bob says, and that's an over-simplification (because he's male), but I can see where Wilder's thought processes are much cleaner than Lucy's, very focused, whereas Lucy's are more scattered but she sees more. The big surprise: Men are actually much more emotional than women when the emotion finally hits them. Bob did a couple of scenes where Wilder reacts after a big hit, once after a bar fight and once when he's unpacking a locker to go off on a mission he's just found out about, and they were really powerful and felt very real even though they were intensely emotional. I've learned a lot from Bob, it's one of the best things about the collaboration.

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Jenny and Bob, I've been wondering. Any advice on dealing with critique groups? I doubt I'll collaborate with anyone any time soon; but I'm in a critique group each week. Early on, I tried on critique groups like dresses, giving up when they didn't fit. I really like the one I'm in now, and don't want to screw it up. Words of wisdom are muchly appreciated.

Jenny: I've never been able to work with a critique group--I don't play well with others--but I've had the same critique partner since 1993, Val Taylor, and she's a godsend. I also workshop with a writing group on the net, the Cherries, and that's been a huge help. And then, of course, there's Bob.
My advice, based on all of these is:
Have a clear structure for at least the first part of the critiques. The Cherries start with "Who's the protagonist? What's her goal? Who's the antagonist? What must be kept in this scene (what's really good)? What needs work?" Then they go into the details of the scene. That helps focus the critiques on the bones of the scene instead of "I don't like books with dogs" or whatever.
Don't respond to a critique for twenty-four hours (the Cherries can't respond for a week). Make notes of what everybody says whether you agree or not, make them right on the scene being critiqued. Don't ignore anything.
Then when you've got some distance and you're away from the group, look at the scene. Where are all the comments centered? Those are the places people had problems with. Look at what they said. Some or most of their comments will be wrong, but the fact that they tripped over that place means it needs fixed, and their attempts to fix it may tell you WHY it needs fixed.
Keep in mind what you wanted for that scene, not what they want. If you've left holes in there, if there are things that aren't clear (and there always are), go back and make clear what you want it to be. They're trying to help by guessing what you meant, only you know what you were trying to accomplish.
Always thank them. Critiquing can be a real pain in the butt, so the fact that they gave you time and energy means you owe them, even if they were completely wrong and annoying.

Bob: I've never been able to work with a critique group either. Sorry. I think when you get more than two people in a group you have a spy. Wait, I'm thinking covert operations. Ok. Critique groups. Well. First, off we're talking novels, rights? A novel is big. Probably so big, that with everyone in a group having one, the group is overwhelmed. When I run my retreat with a max of eight people, my brain about explodes trying to keep track of eight storylines. And I'm a professional. And we do it full time. I do think you shouldn't write in a vacuum. But maybe one or two really good readers or writers you can count on. I like having people who are smarter than me to bounce things off of.
A big thing is you really, really have to be open to feedback. Most people aren't. Also, you have to accept that your feedback probably isn't addressing the real issue. It's the author's responsibility to find the real problem in the manuscript and also the find the real solution. A lot of writing is subconscious. For example, Jenny and I have been stalled out on AGNES AND THE HITMAN for about four weeks now and not really sure why. For Jenny it was cause she was having problems with Agnes. But for me it was because I was having problems with another character. And last night at 3 in the morning I finally realized why. Because I didn't know that character's 'plan.' His motivation. And that was critical, because, in essence, he was the one who brought about the initiating even of the entire book. Duh. But I didn't realize that until last night. But subconsciously it's been bugging me for a month.

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Hi Jenny and Bob,Something in lesson 4 jumped out at me. Bob said "...we were working with her agent and her editor. But I had to learn they were now my agent and my editor." This is something I hadn't thought of before. Bob, how were you able to work this deal without your own agent having his/her hands in the pot and/or getting a cut in the deal? The contract with my agent doesn't stipulate anything about collaborative books and who gets what. How did you work this out with your agent? –

Bob: Touchy issue. I've been through three agents and am on my fourth. Mainly the thing is prior to the collaboration I'd signed 35 book contracts so I had an idea what was what. But by far what saved the day was Jenny is a very honorable person who made it happen.

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Thank you for taking the time to run this class and answer questions. I found it very informative, as well as entertaining. Not to mention it reminds me of my marriage. As long as he stays in his space, and I in mine, relying on e-mail as our main form of communication, it's a greatcollaboration.
I've got a couple of questions for you. First, did you ever find it difficult (especially Bob, being a linear writer) not to charge forward with the next scene when it wasn't your scene to write? Or was it made easy by having the next scene handed to you by the other writer? I'm so linear that I think that would drive me nuts. I also find that when I'm in the groove, I don't want to stop. I've been known to puke out pages after pages just to get the story out.

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Jenny: \I'm not linear, so I tend to write whatever I want and then slot it in when the time comes. But I have to be linear for Bob on this or it just wouldn't work and that's driving us both crazy because until I've got the scene, I can't write it. And it takes me awhile. So the drag on him is enormous. We're still trying to work it out. We're trying something now where he writes ahead and I go back and try to fix what I wrote that was bad because
I wasn't ready yet. It really is our single biggest problem.

Bob: I am linear but not locked into it. Writing isn't that simple. Even when writing by myself I have to circle back and rewrite when needed. I think we'll always be working out the process.

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Second question: When I write, sometimes my character will do things I hadn't originally planned on, or out of the blue the plot will add a new twist, or take a slightly different turn. Or I will realize I need to make a change. I write romantic suspense, and I love it when people die, although never during a sex scene. Anyway, how did you handle that? If something needed to be re-worked or changed and it would have an effect on the other's scenes or character?

Jenny: That's me. Stuff happens all the time and Bob says, "Hello?" and then he changes the rest of the plot to fit it. Bob, in case I haven't mentioned this before, is terrific. The bottom line for us is always, "Is it good for the book?" I've changed things in my scenes and sometimes in his, and sometimes he comes back and says, "WHAT DID YOU DO?" I remember particularly messing with the big Western showdown/shooting scene at the end of the book. Bob said, "What the hell is this?" and I said, "I added character," and he said, "There is no character in shooting," and he was right so he changed it back. But on Agnes I rewrote a scene and changed one of his POV characters and he said, "That's it, that's Xavier," and kept that. He never changes my scenes unless they screw up the plot, and even if they screw up the plot, he usually tries to shift the plot instead of what I've written. Unless there's shooting. I don't mess with shooting scenes ever. I have learned my lesson.

Bob: Yep.


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Thirdly, would you do this again? With each other?

Jenny: We are doing it again. Agnes and the Hitman. She cooks, he kills, they have great sex. Out in spring of 2007 if I get my butt in gear and stop slowing Bob down.

Bob: Yes. We're working on Agnes now. Beyond that we can't think. Head hurts. Clowns might get us.

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And lastly, I will be at the New England Conference where you both will be giving different lectures - will you have the book there to purchase and sign for me? I'm looking forward to reading it. It sounds interesting and I'd really like to see how the two different styles have been blended together. Again, thank you for spending time with us! I learned a lot. –

Jenny: Yep. Don't Look Down will be there and so will we.

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Jennifer you said making a book a bestseller was hard work. Is there a right way to promote a book that, assuming it's a good book, can make all the difference? With an eye toward a career in writing, not just a single book, should I spend every cent I make--or more, promoting my work to build sales and garner that next contract? I'd love some suggestions.

Jenny: You know, it's a tough, tough question because nobody, including the big PR departments in NYC, knows exactly what's going to work. Teaching at RWA conferences helped me because I love to teach and people wanted to learn. But I've also seen people "teach" at conferences and their presentations were really about their books. I think that annoys the people who came to learn. So I'd approach it from a goal standpoint:
Your goal is to reach the kind of people who will enjoy your books so that you can tell them about the book in hopes they'll buy it.
Your secondary goal is to have a good time doing it because if you're having a good time, the readers will be having a good time and associate having a good time with your book.
So take Bob's camo-covered card table at the PX plan. Excellent way to reach the people who would enjoy his books. Except he hated it.
Or take the bookmarks I did long ago. I love designing bookmarks and websites and posters, that's so much fun so I had a good time doing it. Did it reach any readers? I really doubt it.
If you're writing romance, RWA is an obvious place to find readers. Now what can you do that you're good at and that you enjoy that you can offer to RWA members? I have no idea, that's your call, but I think it's a better approach than asking, "Are bookmarks worth it?" I don't know, will they reach the people who might buy your book and make them want to read it, and will you enjoy having them made, doing something innovative to them, maybe, to make them stand out? You just have to figure it out for yourself.
For me, I love teaching, I loved designing the original website (now redesigned), I love blogging, these are no-brainers for me. Booksignings I hate, but they can be fun if you're teaching something or entertaining people, so I always ask to speak first. Direct sales, asking people to buy the book, I loathe so I never do it.
Other things I'd never do but that worked out when somebody else did them for me: the Cherry lists on Yahoo (Deb Lanata set up the JenniferCrusieFans, and then the genius mods Cory, Heidi, Kay, Jill, and Jen joined her to set up the second JennysCherryWriters critique list) and our new bulletin boards, the CherryForums which will open on Monday on the www.jennycrusie.com site and which will have reading, writing, and publishing threads along with announcements of upcoming Cherry books and about twenty other things that I don't know about because Mollie set them up. Heidi knows all about all of that stuff. I just stop by and chat. Basically, do what reaches your audience that you like doing.

Bob: Good question that's very, very hard to answer honestly.Because everyone's situation is so different. I've watched other authors break out and what seemed to work was:
1. Getting lucky. Well, that you can't do anything about except work really hard doing everything you possibly can and hope.
2. Putting together a really good team of agent and editor that believe in you and your writing. This I did very badly through most of my career. So make sure your agent is really looking toward the future with you and has a plan for your career.
3. Writing better books. As you can see, I'm talking beyond the book you have the deal for. Because, to be brutally honest, and I am going to get smacked around for this, a book that has say a $10,000 or $20,000 advance, is going to have a hell of a hard time breaking out. What you want to do is earn out, be a modest success, look good at your publisher, get renewed for more books. Have your numbers rise. Get good word of mouth with your editor and inside your publisher. Be professional to work with. Be positive. Write better and better books. Learn the craft of writing so that you become an artist. Have your agent really get behind you so that maybe two or three books down the line, then the decision is made to break you out. As you can see, what I'm talking about is that the first or second book published is really just the beginning. Look to the future. So the bookmarks, the book-signings, etc. etc. is really not the focus. The focus is really on the writing, the professional aspect, the learning of the craft, the professional relationships, the networking. That's where the real effort should go. And the time.

Jenny: Bob is right.


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It being Friday Free For All, here's a dumb question :*What blog*, please? Many thanks for sharing your wit and wisdom. I know I'll enjoy it even more once I read it all instead of bits and pieces (which were terrific) while saving.

Jenny:. The blog. It's called He Wrote She Wrote and you can get to it by going to the Crusie-Mayer site (www.crusiemayer.com) and clicking on "Dueling Blog." Bob and I started it as a record of this year, writing Agnes and publishing DLD, with a vague idea of maybe turning it into a book at the end of the year if anything interesting happened, and with the less vague idea of PR. We planned to each post once a week, just updates on what was happening. And then it became the Blog That Ate Chicago. I blame Bob. He posted one sentence a month on his blog but we opened HWSW and suddenly he was
blogging about "in the darkness there is death" and killer clowns. And now it's just a big playground and we're spending WAY too much time there but we're addicted and can't stop. It really has been a great record of the year so far. We posted about the media training we did and our four talking points--Don't Look Down, Crusie-Mayer, Romantic Adventure, He Wrote She Wrote—and now when we speak, people remind us from the audience if we don't hit all of them. The people who comment on the blog just named themselves the Cherry Bombs, so I'm expecting more heckling in future audiences, too. I knew it would be a great way to keep a record of the year, I just didn't realize it'd be a community. So
I'm very, very happy with the way things are turning out. Except that the Cherry Bombs know way too much about the collaboration because Bob and I keep fighting on there.
Actually, this is a perfect example of PR you love doing. We'd do it even if nobody showed up but it's more fun when people come and make snarky comments.

Bob: Yep.