HE WROTE: But Seriously Now
Actually, I am being serious. There’s been quite a bit of press about this whole plagiarism thing reference Kaavya Viswanathan. First, if she wasn’t 19, in Harvard and it wasn’t a 500k two-book deal, I don’t think people would be talking about it so much. But those things are true, so given that this blog is sometimes about writing, here’s my Moot outlook on it.
What I found interesting were two articles. One in PW Daily around May 10th or so and the other in the NY Times on Friday, May 12.
Here’s the one from PW Daily:
<<<“On April 15, Viswanathan wrote 259 words for the Times of India about her favorite books. She mentioned that she was currently reading Zadie Smith's On Beauty — "I like it a lot" — and she expressed her admiration for the works of Evelyn Waugh, P.G. Wodehouse, Henry James, Jane Austen, the Brönte sisters, Kazuo Ishiguro, Margaret Atwood, Dorothy Dunnett, and Ian McEwan — hardly the stuff of mass-market chicklit. At school, she wrote, she keeps up with the belles lettres "by reading all the books that are short-listed for the Booker," a reference to the Mann Booker Prize for Fiction, a prestigious award for novelists from the British Commonwealth and Ireland.
When she spoke to the Associated Press on April 23, she again said that she enjoyed Atwood and Ishiguro. And when asked in an interview with UniversityChic.com to list "some of [her] favorite books," she answered, "I really like Kazuo Ishiguro."
On a less highbrow note, she told the Times of India about her "guilty pleasure": old children's books, especially the works of Enid Blyton, the English author behind the Famous Five and Noddy book series. And she confessed to UniversityChic.com that "I really like reading trashy romance novels. Is that something I can admit?"
But one author Viswanathan never mentioned was Megan McCafferty. And while McCafferty's books aim at a young audience and contain romance, few would describe them as "old children's books" or "romance novels." If McCafferty's books had "spoke[n]" to Viswanathan "in a way few others did," she kept it to herself.”>>>>
OK. Now, first, calm down romance writers. I think she was trying to be ‘cute’. You know sometimes we say things and they come back to haunt us. But I don’t think she’s going to be showing up at RWA National in Atlanta. I also wonder when the heck she had time to do school work reading all that high-brow stuff never mind the trashy stuff. Do they give homework at Harvard? Plus somewhere in there she wrote a novel. Anyway, I barely have time to read the side of the breakfast cereal box while eating the cereal.
I remember we (Jenny and moi) did an interview where we got asked those questions: What’s on your nightstand? Favorite line from a book? etc. It makes you kind of look around and go, well, three open Ding-dong wrappers, the tv remote, an empty water bottle and a lot of dog hair. Well, more specifically the question is “what BOOK do you have on your nightstand?” And the answer I gave was The Origin Of Consciousness in The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Which sounds really cool and sophisticated. Hell, Sean Penn gave that same exact answer in an Esquire interview a year or so ago. And that book is indeed on our nightstand. Of course the question wasn’t whether I was reading it. Deb reads it a lot. I’ve read it. Tried to understand it. Grasped some of it. I tend to read what Deb tells to read me because Deb reads everything and is a lot smarter than me and I trust her. Which leads me to the article from the Times which Deb cut out for me and handed to me as I left for the airport last week and told me to read several times. It’s an op-ed piece by Whitney Otto who wrote How To Make An American Quilt, which is a book I also read, because Deb told me to. Good book.
Anyway, I’m not going to copy the article, cause it’s long and the Times might come after me, but if I read it right, and it’s quite possible I got some of it wrong here are some of Otto’s points:
-Chick-lit/romance novels laid end to end are like tract houses. They might be painted differently but they are essentially the same thing.- My take: The same could be said of any genre, even, gasp, books that have the pretense to call themselves works of literature, but it’s not exactly true either. This is the classic literature/genre argument, which I’ll tackle on another post when I have more energy and actually care.
-Overachievers rarely become writers. Writers tend to be underachievers who listen to gossip, drink too much, and have an entirely different set of skills than that required on a Harvard application.- My experience is that most authors I know are not smiley happy, 19 year olds with a bright future ahead of them at an Ivy League school. Hello Jenny, Bob and all you other authors out there. Living the dream. I always say writers are not in the bell curve and we aint exactly on the good end of the bell curve either.
-If she used a consultant to get her into Harvard, then it makes sense she used a consultant/book packager to get her into the world of publishing.- Agree with that. What the hell is a book packager anyway? How do you package a book? How do you package something that is supposed to be creative and your own work? One of the greatest things about being an author is you get to do it yourself. Why would you give that up? Oh, that’s right. To get published. But publishing is like, a bonus. It’s the writing itself that’s the reward. Or should be. And has it occurred to anyone that maybe the book packager was the one who plagiarized? Doesn’t matter in a way because her name was on the cover as the author. Just seems like a weird system that I don’t get.
-Why should anyone be surprised about a “faux writer writing a faux novel.”- Kind of a cold statement but cuts to the core of the matter. This is something Jenny and I have spoken about quite a bit. There is a very big difference between wanting the writing life and being a writer. I think a lot of people, perhaps Viswanathan among them, want what they envision being a writer is as opposed to what being a writer really is. The true life of a writer is a very lonely one, sitting there in front of your computer, trying to conjure up character and story out of the dark depths of your brain.
Not book tour (shudder). People come up and ask directions for the bathroom.
Not agent and editor meetings in New York (scary). And they sit and talk about shoes and other important stuff. A lot.
Not panels at National (very, very scary). Lots of people wanting the secret yet there is no secret.
Not book contracts (ok, wait, those are good but they’re pieces of paper). Because they’re never as great as other people think they are and how they sound to outsiders.
Not standing around at cocktail parties being able to smugly say “I’m a writer.” Because usually people then ask your name and then say “Never heard of you.”
But it is a really cool job. I’m not contradicting myself. I’m saying the essence of writing is great. I think writers work so damn hard, pretty much all the time, and are desperate to make a living at it, because they want to keep doing it. If that makes sense. There’s nothing else I’d rather do for a living than write. But you know, if that next contract didn’t come and I had to get another job, my life wouldn’t be over.
You write because you have to. Because it’s your essence. Not because you envision yourself being a writer. Because you are a writer if you write.

160 Comments:
virgin blog!
This whole Viswanathan matter has been fascinating to watch. While I can't help but feel sorry for this young woman's very public disgrace, a big part of my reaction has been 'oh for heaven's sake, come on, admit it, you knowingly plagiarized.' Blame stress, blame the pressure to achieve, but own up to your mistake.
Apparently the Alloy Syndicate (not sure I'm remembering the name correctly) shares copyright with Viswanathan. In the past syndicates often provided outlines for the writers they hired, so, like Bob, I can't help but wonder about the level of Alloy's culpability.
I suppose Viswanathan will write a book about the humiliation of the experience. Surely Little Brown deserves something in exchange for $500 K and the expense incurred in publishing and removing the book from stores.
Bob wrote: I think writers work so damn hard, pretty much all the time, and are desperate to make a living at it, because they want to keep doing it. If that makes sense.
It makes sense to me. I'm not making a living at it, and maybe never will, but for me it's more of a matter of I can't NOT do it. I can't imagine not writing.
And, thank you, I laughed myself silly at your mention of The Origin Of Consciousness in The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. I, too, have that book, though not next to my bed. I bought it, read it, even understood it -- more than 20 years ago. Can't remember now what the heck it was about, just that my parents and siblings thought I was really strange for being interested in it. Turns out I was in good company. I'll tell my mom. Belated Mother's Day gift.
bw
So, does the advance stay with the author? I've wondered about this, but must admit, I haven't followed this poor girls shame enough to know. Will she retain the money they gave her? If so, will they/can they sue her to get it back? Because I imagine, quite a bit of that has already gone to lawyers.
I admit to not reading/hearing about this, but "googled" the name because I'm to lazy to hit the databases. Found a brief entry in the Harvard Crimson.
I agree that if she wasn't at Harvard the story probably wouldn't be covered as extensively. There was a similar incident several years ago with Janet Daily, suspect plagiarism, and a Nora Roberts book. I read both titles and didn't catch the passages in question. I still don't know how that resolved. But no matter who the author may be, it's just wrong.
The whole issue of plagiarism is a serious one on campus. I'm torn between the two adages: students (or anyone for that matter)just not knowing it's wrong and puh-lease, how do you not know it isn't wrong. We are living in a 'cut and paste' world. The concept of the internet and intellectual property - hey if it's on the internet it's free, right? - is something not being addressed to the fullest potential in academics. So we have paper mills and websites to check for plagiarism.
Yes, the student in question did have to have talent to craft the novel. But lifting someones work to call your own is wrong. Everyone can indeed write (heck, I'm blathering on here), but not everyone is a writer.
Sigh, I won't share what's on my nightstand other than to say it is dust covered.
Writer's not being overachievers? Uh-huh, sure. What about the dedication and compulsion you have to work on your craft? Let's count the number of projects the two of you have going at any given time and then revisit the overachiever moniker. I can not begin to imagine what it takes to create a 300+ page book out of thin air.
With the publish or perish mentality, I wonder how in-depth this will be discussed?
On our nightstands - man, that's a topic right there. Although I will say out of the stack currently sitting there, I'm about to give up completely on a novel that's just making me stare and wonder, "How did THIS get published?" I've never left a book unfinished, but this one is up there as a first. Pity that.
Bob's last paragraph says it all. It's not what we do, it's who we ARE.
I had a million things to do today. It is now midnight in Australia. I am very tired. I just finished doing a media release for the RWAust conference in August - spent an hour fiddling with a damn watermark because I'm a complete techo phobe and had to just give up. Worked at the school tuckshop today. Looked for fancy dress constumes for the family for a party we're all going to on Friday night. Did the grocery shopping - with kids (shudder).Answered 100 emails. Made tea. I still have to do a load of washing or the kids wont have uniforms tomorrow.
My point?
I'm very tired but I'm cranky more than anything. I have half a chapter left - HALF A CHAPTER!! to finish the damn book and my life totally got in the way today and stoped me from doing it.
This does not please me.
I'm a writer. I write. Or I am cranky.
ftmpue - Too bloody tired to play with the verification god. Catch you all in the morning.
First, I can't begin to imagine what it must feel like to realize that someone has taken what you sweated over, literally stole from you. I know a lot of people, probably those not in the industry, act rather blase about plagerism. But it is theft and of the worst kind really because your ideas, your work and effort, are not something you can run out to WalMart and replace.
Second, if I had illusions about what writing for a living really consisted of, reading this blog has cured me of that. And how you two, you and Jenny, can deal with all of it and still be so very gracious to us the fans and to all the aspiring writers out there, is beyond me. You have to really love what you are doing I guess to put up with the rest.
Negative comments on the Romance genre: Either (a) they've read some and it wasn't to their taste, or (b) they haven't read the genre at all. If a, well I don't like everything I've read either, but just because its not to my taste isn't a reason to knock it. If b, well that's just dumb. Those people don't deserve comment.
To the comment that romance novels are like tract houses ... well we who read them know better. You could hand me a manuscript cold and 1/4 way through I'll know that this book is NOT a Crusie, or might well be a Roberts or a Howard, but certainly not a Krentz. Because with each author there is an entirely different flavor to the book. They are different, dammit! And I've read enough bad chick-lit to know that not just anyone can do it. Writing is art and each artist's work is distinguishable even if they all paint the same picture.
The thing about "literature" is that its definition is hazey at best and always changing. As soon as an author really sells and becomes popular they are sneered at for writing for the masses. (a) That's nothing more than sour grapes because their book isn't selling; (b) Shakespeare wrote for the masses too. Pfffllltttt! And so there.
On overachievers not becoming writers: Huh? I don't think you put all that time and effort into a book, into pushing it, facing the potential for rejection, dealing with contracts, agents, publishing houses, and the dreaded book tours because you're lazy. You have to be pretty darned dedicated to what you are doing. And isn't that what makes an overachiever?
On the whole consultant/packager thing, seems to me if you let someone else tweak what you write to make it fit a trend, then its no longer your book, its a corporate product created by committee. And that's just sad. Maybe the packager did the plagerizing, but it was her name on the book. You put your name on something, you take responsibility for it.
(blue) txvydoun: Tirelessly, Xavier vetted Yves dreary omens, unceasingly negative.
dang, that was a good one too.
(red) cggdy: Craftily, George grew dandilion yarn.
Wow! That was very profound, Bob. The last two paragraphs describe my DD perfectly. Unfortunately, to my sorrow, they do not describe me.
I have tried to be a romance writer but I have failed. I just can't stay at it, which I explained many posts ago.
But wait, does that mean I am an overachiever? Well, I'll take that.
zssmkl green
Zavier still says my kid (is) lovely.
On the subject of what's on my nightstand, it tends to be nonfiction. Because if I get started on a good story I'll never get any sleep! Currently going back and forth between Hawking's/Mlodinow's "A Briefer History of Time" and Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" both of which are pretty good. The back and forth thing is mostly a matter of my mood at the time.
(blue) tdmgrv: Tediously, Dan moved grass revealingly verdant.
Now to get serious, Christina b. that was a great comment and I agree completely.
If romance novels were so simple to write I would have written twenty. It is not a formula, although I know that Harlequin used to have one. It does take great dedication and I agree that you have to be an overachiever to stay glued to that keyboard when no thoughts will come.
I watch my DD poring over her manuscripts and synopses, constantly working to make them better. She works hard at her craft. I admire all of you that do that. And how can it be a lonely job when you have all those characters dancing in your heads?
red) enjeldw
Ever nervous, Jenny elicits long Doherty writings.
Bravo Mr Mayer, Bravo.
One of the things I love about this blog is that it totally reminds me of why I desperately want to be a writer and why I don't write more on paper. I write in my head all day long while I sit here at my cushy office manager job but the thought of putting it on paper terrifies me. Sigh. Maybe my therapist will tell me why. More likely she will make me write about it.
red - ahquo. Geez. Albino horses quietly undermine ostriches.
Go, Bob.
When I first made a living from writing, I had to force myself to admit it in public. I needed to hear myself say aloud, "I'm a freelance writer." It had been my version of "living the dream" for some time, and I needed to acknowledge it to myself and the world.
I was ready to move on when I overheard a student who worked at a call center say "I'm a freelance writer." I realized everybody meant different things by "I'm a writer." She meant "I have a day job but in my heart I'm a writer." That's fine. But that's not me.
Now I just say "I write for an educational publisher" (my biggest client). Sometimes I add "And you've never heard of me" or "I toil in happy obscurity." It's true. Nobody really cares what you do anyway; they want you to say, "And what do you do?"
You're right, Bob: the work is the thing. And what a thing it is.
norhekk: Ned obviously romances: he eats Krispy Kremes.
Bob - when you get serious you do it well.
Downundergal- I totally agree about the cranky. I've ben running my butt off doing a million other things that support my writing habit. I'm lying in bed tweaking my synopsis because I would rather lose sleep than lose writing time.
Beacuse I am a writer and there is nothin I would rather do. Published or not, I am Living the Dream - with every word I write.
And thanks to this blog I have very few illusions left about how a contract will change my life.
So if Bob and Jenny are silent, I don't worry. They're writing, and grocery shopping, fixing toilets, and being classic underacheivers. Who is he kidding?? If I underacheieved htat much, I'd be hospitalized with exhaustion.
What's on my nightstand? nothing but an alarm clock. However, I do have a book in my purse, a couple on my coffee table, one in my car, one in the bathroom and whatever I am currently reading by my side. Most of them are 'trashy romance novels' because that is what I like. Come on. I like them, it is almost all I read, but when it comes down to it most of them are junk food for the brain. Just like really really good chocolate is still junk food. Just remember, even junk food has some redeeming qualities.
I am reading two 'vitamin packed" books at the moment: Stiff, the curious lives of human cadavers by Mary Roach. (for my book club) and The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, time and the texture of reality by Brian Greene. Both are very good. But in the time I have been reading them I have finished about 5 romances.
RESting CB, a junk food (for the brain) junkie
kdnkf-Kindly do not kill (a) friend. (just because I expressed an honest opinion)
Scope Dope Cherrybomb said...
If romance novels were so simple to write I would have written twenty. It is not a formula,
Well I suppose its a formula in that certain elements have to be there. But as Bob said, that's true of all novels to greater or lesser extent. Otherwise all you have is stream of consciousness writing and not a story.
Christina B.--You said it all. I have nothing left to comment on those topics except for the bit about what's on my nightstand. Since I am still in term, I am only reading books on Roman art, architecture and the like. However, on my nightstand (actually a shelf above my head that I will no doubt knock myself out cold with one of these days) are some books that I will be reading this summer when I go on my dig. They are:
-Don't Know Much About History by Kenneth C. Davis
-Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich
-Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett
-Sex, Lies and Online Dating by Rachel Gibson
-Atlantis by David Gibbins
-Perfume by Patrick Suskind
-The Other Boleyn Girl by Philippa Gregory
Then, when I get back to the states, I am ransacking my mother's mystery library and reading some Agatha Christie and Elizabeth Peters. And I am also hitting the bookstore and getting some of Lani Diane Rich and Bob's stuff--haven't read any yet, but really looking forward to it.
All right, that's enough jabbering from me.
ngtqj - Never go to Quincy jittered.
Ok, everyone. Did you read that? Bob said *I* am a writer. Well, not ME, specifically. But he did say 'you are a writer if you write'. And I write. So I'm a writer. Of course, I don't tell people that. Only my very closest friends (and immediate family) know that I'm writing. Well, them and the strangers that my husband tells all the time.
As for this young lady, I think it's all very sad. And it really speaks to people's attitudes in this world. I mean, yes, she took parts of that book and called it her own. And that is just WRONG. Very bad. Yet, there are hundreds of sites all over the internet where students can buy term papers. Nobody smacks them down. Someone mentioned the cut-and-paste thing, and I agree that it's a major part of what happened. I can remember being terrified writing a term paper, lest I should inadvertantly copy a phrase from the encyclopedia. Today, it's nothing to copy paragraphs and call them your own.
As for what's on my nightstand, well that's easy. DLD. And a whole huge stack of Lynn Kurland books. I can't get enough of her stuff. Her books are my guilty pleasure.
Bob...very inciteful and quite a view into the writers mind.
I read but don't write, so I get the benefit of the writers mind....and quite a benefit!...keeps me up late into the night quite a lot.
Nora Roberts won her case.
vwddzv red
vicarious words don't do zip vicariously
You know, I spent my entire time at the gym feeling as if I'd been snide about the student with the day job when I didn't mean to be.
What I meant to say was that for me, finally, it's not about saying "I'm a writer." It's about WRITING: butt in chair, fingers on keyboard, pen on paper, plotting into a tape recorder while running errands, opening a vein, working through the nausea, whatever.
And getting back to Bob's point, I think lots of people want to "be writers" but don't want to actually, you know, WRITE. They find doing the work to be too hard. Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair are recent examples from the supposedly credible world of journalism.
But anyway, that's what I meant. No snideness intended.
And I can't wait to read Bob's thoughts about "literature" vs. "trash." Sonnets have formulas, but nobody sneers at Shakespeare.
ldjahd: Let's drink juice and hunker down.
you are a writer if you write.
Seriously Bob, Thank you for the validation. (I am a non-fiction writer and I tend to discount my work to myself. I've always struggled internally with the issue of credibility.)
The "book" scandal that was more on my radar was the "Oprah" book guy and his problem with what did and didn't really happen to him.
On my nightstand? Always present (in form of decorative display): Gone with the Wind, Flashpoint by JAK, High Five by Evanovich, WTT by Jenny, and One Summer by Karen Robards.
Reading or TBR: Evanovich's Plum books 1-4. I'm re-reading in anticipation of book 12 due in a few weeks. No high-brow stuff for me - I'm fiction all the way in my free time. I get all the non-fiction I can handle in my own writing/researching.
I agree that there is a big difference between the 'business of writing' and writing itself. I disagree that writers are underacheivers. Solitary yes, falling short of self-set goals - usually, but underachievers - NO.
hekfjm - word games don't fit with the SERIOUSness of this blog for me today.
Nobody has said but did this girl ever get taken to court and plagerism proven or did she admit to it? I am confused.
The only time I have felt that I had to write in the same sense that my DD has to write is when I was writing for the newspapers. First, the weeklys were I was the only 'live' writer and then for the daily where I was "the Wawa Bureau".
In the weeklies I was writing to amuse the reader so it was pretty inane stuff but for the daily I was extremely concerned with being strictly factual...you know, accurate and getting the whole story. I hope I accomplished both. I found I wrote really well to a deadline but not if I have all kinds of time to get it done.
green) aesbtu
Actually, essential stories Bob takes universally. OOH that is bad.
The Oprah book guy? I never heard of it until my friend brought the book into my house and my husband said "You know, that book is all crap, right?" I just stared at him like "Huh?" Then he explained that the writer had pissed off Oprah because he said it was all reall, and it turned out that it wasn't. I had no clue. Had never even heard of the book. Of course, I think I was hard into writing craft books at the time, and hardly came up for air to eat, much less watch Oprah. It's still sad though. I mean, I started reading that book and thought it would have been an excellent fiction sell. I don't know why he tried to play it all off as if it had happened to him.
Two things. Nakedunder myclothes said the "credible" world of journalism. Not a good idea to generalize. Most journalism is credible, numc. Journalism like everything else has its bad guys. There are some who try harder.
$500k for a first time author? How did I miss that the first three readings through. Gawd, I am going to pull out my two attempts and try again. Isn't that a little bit ludicrous? What did her book have that many other first time authors did not, besides being alledgedly plagerized? Please explain this amount to me. I bet even Bob and Jenny, him and her are amazed.
red) goars
Good oral answers reveal strengths.
Bob said, "Because you are a writer if you write."
Thanks, Bob. Some of us need to be reminded of that now and again.
Especially me when I'm taking my lunch in the basement of where I work and looking for post-it note #14 out of 38 so I can add it to my work-in progress on the ancient lap-top before I forget because I'm sure my boss isn't paying me to write romantic suspense when I'm supposed to be copying files.
But let's face it. The best ideas come when you really should be doing something else - at least for me.
And when I'm done with this one, I can start all over again with one of the other 1,570,000 idea files, post-it notes, or scribbles on napkins. LTD!
Lurking in Indiana
qsfozzb - Darn. The copier's beeping for me.
Christina sez the following is on her nightstand:
-Don't Know Much About History by Kenneth C. Davis
I like this one. I used to use it to teach cultural pluralism in the U.S. when I was in Ohio (Bowling Green State, like Jenny, though not at the same time). If you thought stand up comedy was hard, try teaching the history of American multiculturalism to clueless suburban white kids who resented being made to take the class (filled a requirement). As one of them said to me, "Why do I need to take multiculturalism? I'm an INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS major!" Oy.
On my nightstand: The Bombshell Manual of Style, Brockmann's Hot Target, a book on the origins of WW I, a book on Etruscan culture, "From the Beast to the Blonde," an autobiography of an artist/gallery owner friend of the family (now deceased). On the floor next to the bed: a number of fashion magazines, a compliation of science fiction short stories, and "The Art of War."
For those keeping score: today we had part of our fit test at bootcamp again. 3 weeks later, my mile run is down from 11m14s to 9m40s. I was hoping for 9m30, but between PMS cramps and a sore left knee, I was 10 seconds over that. Close enough, though. I'm pretty pleased.
zfyyd: Zaphod followed yelling yellow dinosaurs.
Was thinking about the tract-house romance genre comment.
Ice cream is ice cream, and mint-chip may look vaguely like pistachio, but if you try to slip me pistachio instead, the spoon lodged in your heart will probably indicate to you the subtle distinction I find between the two.
:)
Jessica
dsdupf: Drab slithering dinosaurs usurp pretty fairies.
Scope Dope Cherrybomb said...
Nobody has said but did this girl ever get taken to court and plagerism proven or did she admit to it? I am confused
It's been pretty well proven by comparison with at least 1 and possibly as many as 4 books. She says any similarities were "unconscious and unintentional".
For a review of the similarities see this article:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=512965
Plagiarism is wrong, regardless of age, physical attributes, where one goes to school, what you read or what's on your nightstand. We learn this in grade school for cat's sake. With the advent of the technology age, I think we've lost our moral compass.
Most of the literary authors cited as the young lady's favorites, were required reading in English Lit back in the stone-age when I went to high school. I have also read Dave Barry, and loved it/his writing. But then, I didn't go to Harvard, don't have that image to maintain. It sounds like the young lady has some issues regarding expectations made of her. In that light, the pressure she has makes her more susceptible to problems such as plagiarism in writing. Win/succeed at all costs.
I haven't a clue as to what is on my nightstand. I have books spread out all over, what a mess. But, I am almost finished with Bodyguard of Lies, can't remember the author's name. GREAT Book!! I think Gant is one of the most fascinating characters I've read, well, in addition to Dave Barry.
So, Bob, where's the bathroom?
onnlhir= oh no! leaving his irreplaceable rotor.
Lynn, said:
I agree that if she wasn't at Harvard the story probably wouldn't be covered as extensively
Exactly. The whole marketing blitz was on "student at Harvard" it seemed titillating like there'd be some inside scoop on the kids of the rich and famous.
I think what Bob might have meant when he referred to most writer's being "underachievers" was the abscence of Ivy League education. To be a good writer you have to be engaged in life, living life to the fullest otherwise you have nothing real "on an emotional level" to impart. You don't need a first class education for that. Story telling and creativity come from a different part of the brain than "book smarts." However, that said, you do have to have a pretty decent grip on grammar, spelling, story construction, etc. etc. (This coming from the Queen of too many commas (grin))
Some of the best books I've read have been about the less than perfect character living on the other side of the tracks. A writer can't really write that from the gut and heart level if he or she hasn't experienced it.
On my nightstand:
A Widow for One Year - John Irving (Still trying to get through it.)
The Spontaneous Fulfillment of Desire and The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, both by Deepak Chopra.
Speaking of John Irving, (Exeter '61)his novel, A Prayer For Owen Meany, was turned into a play by a British playwright, Simon Bent, and Irving attended the students performance at Exeter (my daughters old school)this spring. I believe it was the second performance of the play in America.
Irving has made his fortune telling stories about his less than rosy experiences at the exclusive boarding school. Even when he doesn't call the town Exeter in his novels, you know it is.
Maybe our young Harvard student had aspired to a similar success.
ckjndx
could kindly jackaroos not dance 'xactly
nope
ptiob
pretty tame igaunas often bite
To Jessica.
WELL SAID.
My nightstand? Super organized. No c/r books on there because I just finished EVEN VAMPIRES GET THE BLUES by Katie Mcallister (Loved it!) and put it in my alphabetized book shelf. That's right. I'm one of those. But I am taking suggestions. No, not that kind, Geez.
lbooth
lbooth said ... I just finished EVEN VAMPIRES GET THE BLUES by Katie Mcallister
I loved her MEN IN KILTS.
(blue) igmwor: Ignoring gnomes makes working out rewarding.
bother
(blue) asykr: Assembly sometimes yields knowing rewards.
Anonymous of lend/loan, 'gator, and squirrel: I feel so very sorry for this young woman. Something seems VERY FISHY that any first-time writer would get a half mil for anything, no matter how brilliant. I think she's been hung out to dry. No 19-year old should be un-shepherded in this life. Those adults in the publishing area of this fiasco, seems to me, got caught in a mess and dumped her to the piranhas. She's stuck for life with this mistake. What a terrible, terrible shame. I hope her parents are springing for some serious therapy. This is too much of a burden for a 19-year old to bear alone. We've all made mistakes, but to by crucified internationally, how crushingly terrible.
VOGOIYBE: Voting on gerbils of initially young behavior evolves.
Deb said: "With the advent of the technology age, I think we've lost our moral compass."
Interesting observation. I admit to stopping back here again this afternoon just to see where the conversation was going. Spending time on a daily basis explaining to kids why you can't just copy and paste a picture from the Louvre web site onto your personal web site (my teacher said I could)I have to look at the distinction of saying sure you can copy and paste but you shouldn't.
Along these same lines, I've been following (somewhat) a story concerning a tenured professor on Inside Higher Ed having issues with plaigarism and verifiable research.
Do the six books sitting on my desk count? Or only those books on the nightstand? I can share the books on my desk ....
What's on my nightstand? Nothing. I don't have a nightstand. :( In our small bedroom, my husband lucked out. BUT, on top of my dresser, I am the proud BRAND NEW OWNER of the following:
Cut Out by our beloved Bobster
and then...
Sizzle
The Cinderella Deal
Trust Me on This
WAAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
All of the Crusie's are signed by The Great Cherry herself.
I'm happy today!
rdlcgxxb
red dragons long courageously ... oh pooo...I give up! ;)
-Chick-lit/romance novels laid end to end are like tract houses. They might be painted differently but they are essentially the same thing.
I know why this seems offensive to some (and let me preface this by saying that I love romances and both read them and write them) but in essence it is true. Romances are more "like" other romances than, say, science fiction novels (which it could be said are also all alike). It is the sameness that makes them romance novels. And it's the paint that makes them each different.
But here is a theory I read somewhere a long time ago, and who said/wrote it I have no idea, but it was probably someone really famous and smart whose name I should remember:
There are only two stories:
A man leaves home.
A man comes to town.
(of course the PC version would be to say "a person" so obviously this famous/smart person whose name I can't remember was a man. If someone knows who it was, please tell me.)
Now this is the kind of statement that makes my head hurt, because I immediately start thinking about every story I've ever read, trying to disprove it. Last time I tried, which was years ago, I couldn't come up with any that didn't fit. So either this person was correct, or I haven't read enough stories.
Aren't you glad I shared that so you can spend the rest of the day thinking about it? [insert evil laughter]
bw
vtdkgqt: various tales do keep (us) guessing, quietly told
Re the "fishy" aspect. I've been wondering if she wasn't in some part used. I'm not saying she has no responsibility, but I do wonder ... its as if they took various elements from various recently successful novels and threw them all together. The whole thing FEELS packaged. Right down to the title because I immediately thought - "haven't I read that?" which I haven't but its got that flavor to it, like "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" if that makes sense.
I guess what I'm saying is that someone, I think, manufactured the book to spec, and I wonder if they didn't choose her as the author to meet some general profile.
bon cheri bomb said...
-Chick-lit/romance novels laid end to end are like tract houses. They might be painted differently but they are essentially the same thing.
I know why this seems offensive to some (and let me preface this by saying that I love romances and both read them and write them) but in essence it is true. Romances are more "like" other romances than, say, science fiction novels (which it could be said are also all alike).
I don't find it offensive. I just think well, duh, of course their are similarities. And of course there's a certain amount of formula. But that's true of all novels. All art. All architecture. Whatever. And so what. There have to be certain rules or it won't make any sense. That doesn't mean they lack creativity or that one doesn't stand out from another.
Well except for Barbara Cartland. Those are completely interchangeable.
Okay back again - less tired.
A few years ago in Australia there was a writer (think she won the Booker or some equally prestigous award) with a book called the Hand That Signed the Paper. She was attacked a little while later not for plagerism but for passing herself off as the daughter of an illiterate ukranian taxi driver, hence an authority on the material within the book, which was extremely false. I kind of felt sorry for her - she was just really getting into her character and who cares if the book was brilliant and it received high praise indeed.
As to whoever said Harlequin had a formula - wrong. Romantic fiction,particularly category, is accused of being formulaic because it has certain elements, like a guy and a girl falling in love but it is no more than any other mass market fiction is formulaic. There is no big computer or secret formula they give to their authors - just blood sweat and tears.
Bon cheri bomb - someone once said all you need for a good read is a girl and a gun. Actually that may have been for a good movie. But obviously there is differng opinions as to essential elements ;-)
I don't agree about writers not being overachievers. Sheesh, Bob, you were a GB for God's sake!
I missed all the plagarism scandals--really I don't live in a cave, I just have little kids. But how dumb can you be? Really?
I wrote a scientific paper with a student and he wrote the first draft and I got the ms to work on and looked up the references he'd quoted only to see he'd lifted huge chunks out of other peoples work. Yikes! If I hadn't got down to the nitty gritty my name would have been on a piece of work that was 50% copied. Needless to say, I might only by 5'1" but he was on his knees by the end of our next meeting.
LOL at Barabara Cartland. That poor old love was an icon to romance. Thank goodness we now have new icons :D
Scope Dope asked me to let you all know her computer died today. She won't be online for some time. I'm going to drag my laptop over there so that she can get the occasional fix until the hard drive is repaired. We'll have to share time on it because I use it regularly : ) but sometimes it's good to make sacrifices. Besides, it's still within range of Mother's Day so what else can I do?
red - eukdq
everyone understands, kick drvie quickly
Yeah, apparently, I can't spell today. The words look right then I post and shake my head. I'm not in edit mode at the moment. Obviously.
blue- rkuaa
rage kills understanding, all alone
Poor Scope Dope!!! How it gets sorted out soon!
OK--that is the third person I know this month with major computer probs. Yikes.
This is a long one, kiddies.
Bob asked...
What the hell is a book packager anyway?
I freelanced for a book packager for a while. What they do, one of the things, is come up with a book (or series) idea, describe it to their "writer," who then comes up with a synopsis, TOC (non-fic), and a sample chapter or two. Then, their "artist" takes it and comes up with cover art, illos (if needed), and the packager puts it together into a display and press kit kinda thingee. You see book packagers at the big book marts, flogging their ideas to the publisher/printers/sponsors, basically looking for someone to pay to have it turned into a book. If the idea doesn't sell, the creative talent types still get their fee, but the packager bites the bullet on the costs.
A lot of coffee table books are from packagers, and, currently, a whole bunch of the YA books/series have been generated by book packagers (wasn't the Traveling Pants series packaged?). The finished books can be just as good as any book produced through normal means, but the author is not a name. Some packagers will give the author credit and a share in the royalties, some it's straight work-for-hire, which sucks, especially when the book makes a bundle. But there you go.
AND:
And has it occurred to anyone that maybe the book packager was the one who plagiarized?
Nope. If they pay an author to write a book, the author writes the book. The thing here is that they went for the hook - the uber bright, attractive, non-white chick at an ivy league school - to get the book published. It's kind of an echo of the second book by the Nanny Diaries gals. They were hyped to death because they were at the crest of a wave, but their writing was only so-so, and the competition was much thicker on the ground by that time, from people who weren't getting six and seven figure advances.
AND quotes: "Why should anyone be surprised about a “faux writer writing a faux novel.”
They're not always faux anything. At the time I worked for the packager, I was working on a cookbook and teaching cooking in a professional program. It was cookbooks I worked on for them. If they'd had one of their in-house writer/editors do it, the books wouldn't have necessarily been bad, but they wouldn't have been as good as if they paid someone who knew how to do that particular kind of writing. This girl obviously intended to make a career of writing and was offered big bucks to write something in a style and genre she was unfamiliar with. And with, I'm guessing, the arrogance of youth and an ivy league address, she assumed she could wing it by simply reading a few examples. Who knows what else was going through her mind? Fact is, she wasn't qualilfied for the job, but the marketing types jumped on her like lions on fresh meat.
It's only partly her fault. Greedy people wanted the money they were betting she could generate for them, but they didn't want to perform any due diligence (if I may steal from another profession entirely) to be sure they had a "legitimate" product. When you look at most scandals, in publishing or elsewhere, greed is usally at the bottom of it. Getting greedy also means getting stupid. Ask Jenny. No, not like that. She did all that research in cons, which are basically taking advantage of the cloud of stupidity that comes between a person and their common sense when they get greedy.
ahnsw (red)
aardvarks habitate new south wales
(sorry, downundergal, best I could do)
Bon Cheri bomb - you are evil.
Of course I am now thinking of all the books I've read recently. And they all fit!
dapedb- Do all plagiarized epics depress Bob?
RESting CB
overachievers
I went to an overachiever high school and barely made it through. However, I graduated at sixteen and got the third highest SATs in my class. So, I'm, in that context, an underachiever. I could never really focus on school work. Most of it didn't interest me as much as the stuff I was reading for pleasure and the life I was living, either in the real world or in my head. So, I make a perfect writer. Probably why I've always done it. /;+)))
On my nightstand - mostly knitting mags and a few beading ones, too. My latest "day job" is creating patterns for a needlework shop, so that's why they're there. My
"real" reading is on my desk, handy for when I need a break from the computer.
vdefp (red, and did anyone ever figure out why the colors change?)
very deadly elves fight perilously
(I am so not making it today)
On Bob's point about writers not being in the bell curve, I had a college professor who was flumexed about not knowing how to feed her handouts into the copier for the staple to come out right. I told her not to worry because the whole class was filled with creative writers and none of us knew how to do that either. She lauged and laughed...because she's married to a writer.
RESting cb wrote: Bon Cheri bomb - you are evil.
Of course I am now thinking of all the books I've read recently. And they all fit!
C'mon, guys. I'm really counting on at least one of you (who shall remain unnamed, though we all know the likely culprits) to come up with (a) who said this and (b) at least one example that does not fit.
Please?
bw
fvtnbr: favorite verbiage tends not 2 be redeemable
bob: you did good, but i must echo, you are not an underachiever. nobody can put in that much work and be an underachiever. it's too completely opposite. (on the other hand, no one said you were an overachiever...joke)
writing: i- like some of you- am a writer. i have to write. when i'm not writing, i'm planning. i could never sell a book, and i'd still write. writing is about writing. people who want to BE writers are way different- they want the glamourized lifestyle (which after reading your blog, even if it is LTD, suggests that the "glamourized" lifestyle doesn't really exist). but they want the "glory" of being a writer rather than because they have to write like others need to breath.
(the following has a good possibility of ending up as a rant):
the writer: in the LA Times, there was an article about a whole bunch of teenage-ish (around the age of "youth") writers who are selling books (i think most of them due to family connections). she was on the list. then the scandal came, which started because Megan McCafferty's fans saw the similarities and warned her on her website. the girl then admitted that she liked Megan's books and maybe got ideas from them, but she didn't mean anything by it.
i don't have any sympathy for her. she plagarized and she was caught. she's a nineteen year old at Harvard- i am sure she has the mental capacity to udnerstand what she did was wrong. and now, she won't even admit it. it wasn't a "little mistake" as she keeps telling people. these are people's books and their incomes (her publishing house really got the short end of the deal there). you can't steal and cost people a lot of money and then go, "oh well."
and yes, being a Harvard student probably played into it, but that's how our media works. we don't care when someone random person drives with a baby on their lap (besides calling them an idiot), but Brittney Spears does it and it takes over the 5 o'clock news, as opposed to more info on foreign problems or the war or the immigration bill or...i remember once timing the news and most of it was the "junk" (celebrity lives, how to make a chicken taste good, etc) instead of news (the war, Congress, Iran's nuclear program, etc). the best news i ever got was when cable accidently gave us a Canadian news channel for a couple of months. American news is horrible and looking for the attention-grabbers, ie celebrities, and not the "boring stuff".
ok, for those of you who have stuck with this, i am getting off the soapbox now. for what's on my nightstand: well, i have about 20 library books, three borrowed from a friend, and a couple of TIMES and Us Newsweek magazines. next to my bed, i have about 10 other library books, five re-reads, a graphic novel, and Bob's Z:a Dave Riley novel.
nora, when you said "Sizzle, The Cinderella Deal, & Trust Me on This" were on your nightstand, all signed, were you bragging? i got Sizzle from Kaiser (they have a little book sale every once in awhile; that was actually how i got my first Crusie, Faking It), but i'm trying to get a cheapish (sorry Jenny, but i'm a student) copy of CD & TMOT. you are one lucky woman.
g-g: i'm very impressed with the 11m14s. then you add 9m40s. i am in awe. (obviously, i am not a runner. a walker, yes, i can walk miles, very quickly, no problem, but running?) actually, i've walked a mile under 10m, but run and it takes me an extra 6m or so. very weird.
jessica: excellent comment
scope dope: i hope your computer is fixed quickly. your a good daughter, cherry magic sheryl
bon cheri bomb: this will keep me busy trying to find a book. will let you know as soon as i do.
green: uiculgg:
under isolated cookery, u lick good grub.
sorry for this being so long
for those who don't remember, bon cheri bomb said...
"There are only two stories:
A man leaves home.
A man comes to town."
...and the rest of us have been trying to find books. well, YA books come to a rescue. a lot of them are just a portion of their lives, in town, never leaving but just living. (ex: Alt Ed by Catherine Atkins). however, still thinking of "adult" books, which is a lot harder. geez, you guys need to stay still more.
Random responses that came to mind as I read this blog:
Bob, for evidence and ammunition about what's really going on in romance novels, I recommend DANGEROUS MEN AND ADVENTUROUS WOMEN, an anthology of essays by romance writers edited by Jayne Ann Krentz; and THE NATURAL HISTORY OF THE ROMANCE NOVEL, by academic Pamela Regis. If you really want to knock yourself out, read Northrop Frye on the subject of the romance genre.
What I find really offensive is that she says "trashy romance novels" as if it were a redundancy. For the record, the Mole doesn't like to read trashy romance novels; the Mole likes to read GOOD romance novels, as by Jane Austen, Jennifer Crusie, Mary Stewart, Elizabeth Lowell, triple goddess Jayne Ann Krentz/Jayne Castle/Amanda Quick, Nora Roberts/J.D. Robb, etc. etc.
For those who like me have never heard of this person before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaavya_Viswanathan
One of my favorite quotes: "Talkers never write. They just go on talking." -- Christopher Morley
Margaret Drabble's final lecture has some interesting comments on the writer as celebrity:
One of the problems connected with the growth of the literary circuit and the expansion of the book tour is that writers have become disorientated, like the protagonists of recent novels by Amis and Ishiguro. We no longer know where we are or what is expected of us. Are we intellectuals, jesters, stand-up comics, artists, artistes? Are we meant to be giving an update on the reputation of Derrida, or to be making people laugh? (Only the most brilliant, like the late Malcolm Bradbury, could do both at once.) Such random invitations come our way- we may find ourselves sandwiched between a sports star and a duchess at a literary lunch, or stranded alone behind a podium in a three-quarters empty auditorium , or speaking to a select audience of three ladies and a dog in a friendly bookshop. We are offered fees ranging from 'zero and bring your own refreshments', through fifty pounds and five hundred pounds to five thousand pounds and more- no wonder most of us hate letters of invitation saying 'State your Fee'. We are not Mrs Thatcher nor Bill Clinton, nor Nick Leason, nor were meant to be. We do not know what we owe our publishers, and are frightened to say no. For some, the circus element has replaced the central activity- in a fleeting visit to one of the best funded creative writing schools in the world I met young people who seriously discussed how they would stand up to the stress of a book tour before they had even written a book, let alone had one accepted for publication. In Canada this spring- yes, at a festival- I met a successful young writer who had been completely confused by the demands of her publicist. Her first novel involved an undertaker, and she had been asked to pose as a corpse in a coffin. Should she have said no? Was it demeaning to agree to go for the photo opportunity? As I tried to assure her in my elder statesman way that she had the right to say no, I recalled that a press photographer once long ago asked me to jump off the top of a heaped pile of copies of the Oxford Companion to English Literature. And I did it. Moreover, it was rather a good photo- I was laughing wildly as I jumped, and the expression on my face summed up the happy relief of having finished- at least temporarily- with that demanding volume. (More at http://www.redmood.com/drabble/lecture.html)
What's on my nightstand? THE SOCIOPATH NEXT DOOR by Martha Stout. LOCKED ROOMS by Laurie R. King. THE SECULAR SCRIPTURE: A STUDY OF THE STRUCTURE OF ROMANCE by Northrop Frye. GYPSY LOVER by Edith Layton. The clock/radio/cassette player. And Aliera, the Other Cat. (She likes to sit on top of the radio.)
Backstory on Nora Roberts/Janet Dailey: Dailey was caught plagiarizing Roberts. Roberts offered not to sue if Dailey would publicly acknowledge the plagiarism and donate her proceeds from the books to the Literacy volunteers. Dailey agreed but didn't follow through. http://www.likesbooks.com/30.html (other links on that page). Nora sued and won.
Oh, by the way, Bob--remember Bubbles, the fluffy kitten that J.T. rescued in the swamp? http://www.catoftheday.com/ (May 17, for anyone who looks later)
jqnudxqt -- Jenny quipped, "No use, Doherty; Xavier quoted Talpianna."
Zaza, thanks for the insight into "packaging." Its amusing to see that what I thought wasn't so far from what it really is. Makes me thing of The Monkies and The Village People, actually.
Also, I really had thought I'd done this long and terribly clever, insightful and thought provoking comment on that Oprah author and the role the media played and the current fedupedness of the general public on being lied to - again. But apparently I wrote it in my head. You'll just have to trust me that it was really good stuff.
And it all really goes to show that getting into Harvard is no guarantee that people won't still do stupid things.
As for a man coming to town or a man leaving town ... geeze with all these writers on the blog maybe one of you could write a book that doesn't fit? Then we could all sit back and feel superior because we know of the one exception.
yeah, bless old BC's heart. And the rest of them that wrote those insipid stories. Because bad as they were, they did pave the way. At least, thank the Lord, we've put the bodice rippers behind us.
And you know I think that's a lot of the stigma that still follows the romance genre around. Now we've got novels with comedy, mystery, suspense - all the good stuff. But there will always be some people that refuse to acknowledge that the genre has moved forward. Oh well, let 'em grumble. Romance is a HUGE share of the industry, so it must be all sour grapes. NA NA NA NANA.
(red) dkzvr: Doves kill zaza's violet rose.
Here's what I always thought book packaging was.
http://www.hodi.com/book_packaging.html
The only one I have any connection with is Tekno Books:
Tekno Books is one of the leading and most successful book developers in the world. The Division has had over 1,200 books published in its history, working with such notable authors as Tom Clancy, Dean Koontz, Tony Hillerman, Deepak Chopra, Sara Paretsky and Anne Perry. These books have been sold to 330 publishers around the world in 33 languages, and selected by 25 different book clubs. Tekno Books creates book concepts, sells these concepts to publishers, and arranges for the writing of the manuscripts and their delivery to the publisher. Hollywood Media Corp. owns 51% of Tekno Books.
It's run by editor Martin H. Greenburg, who was co-editor of the two anthologies in which I've been published. In both cases, he was in charge of the financial side and dealing with the publisher, as well as helping the first-named editors (Andre Norton and Bruce Arthurs) to choose stories.
cohknizi -- Come on, homeys, kangaroos need idle zookeeper' irony.
So, I put the question to my daughter (she whose head explodes regularly from trying to absorb too much information) and she came up with:
A Boy's Life (her favorite novel at the moment) which I have never read but she had told me about the guy drowning in the car and -- he came from out of town.
Then she suggested Romeo and Juliet and I had to tell her that by definition they were both -- leaving home. (she says symbolism doesn't count, but I beg to differ)
Then she came up with Winnie the Pooh and I said those animals all came from Christopher Robin's bedroom and she said, no they all had houses in the woods. Well, yeah, I replied, but they all started out in CR's bedroom and -- they left home.
Then she said it would have to be a story about someone on an island -- who left home to get there.
Then I thought I had come up with one: To Kill A Mockingbird. A truly insular story. But no, damn it, seven-year-old Dill did indeed come from elsewhere, no matter how well he seemed to fit in.
Can someone at least tell me who came up with this dad-blasted theory? Before someone accuses me of plagarism by reference?
bw
ktbeezp: no. it's late.
tal- the cat in the article you posted ("Bubbles") looks drugged. it said "Also he likes his playthings" (no, not that one, geez, CB's) and i wonder how much catnip finds it's way into them.
romance novels: i don't remember where i read it- could have been here- but isn't the romance industry the biggest book genre out there, especially since more women read than men? i could be getting this wrong, really don't remember it that well, but if it's true...leave those trashy romances alone. and while i do not particularly like the ones i think she's referring to, yes, there are a lot of kinds out there, and stop lumping them together, or you'll get the "well, all teen books are about finding yourself, you stealing harvy (or whatever Harvard kids are called in annoyance)".
ok, so trying to find the one exception (excluding YA books, because there's plenty of examples in those), and i was thinking of Crusie books. would Sizzle count? (can't remember if Richard was new to the office, or if they were just finally working together...) or Crazy for You? (she just moves across town, don't know if that counts) or for those who read it (i haven't yet, so really don't know) Cindrella Deal? and i must say, Jenny does have a lot of characters moving into "towns". i think a different theme in ALL books is: someone new is introduced to the characters. or is that too obvious?
red: kcdunmyea: (which i thought said "kick dummy, eh?" when tried pronouncing it)
keeping cake dated under November means you eat all.
Do I really have to find an answer to this conundrum? I'm still trying to find a poem by Emily Dickinson that can't be sung to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas"....
wuloj -- Wow! Ukrainians love our Jenny!
Hi OH, I am here. cherry magic sheryl set up her laptop fof me but I have trouble because the keys feel too close together.
I am the terrible person that said Harlequin had a formula. I was just discussing that with my DD and she said what they mailed to me and I thought sounded like a formula were guidelines. I still think that sounds like a formula.
I am taking my computer to the hospital tomorrow, for the second time in four months. I just had the hard drive replaced and now I don't know what is wrong. DH thinks it is the power supply.
green) gjwhevc
Give Jenny whatever her eventual vacationers choose. ????
red ndfvnrhi
Now Doherty finds villains night reconning his island.
talpianna wrote: Do I really have to find an answer to this conundrum?
Yes, provided you and I are talking about the same conundrum. But I'm going to bed now, so you have about seven hours to do it. Piece of cake. Or insect. Or plant life. Your choice.
I'd offer Moot points, but I think there is an unwritten rule that only J or B can do that.
bw
mazkfr: many are zealously keeping friends refreshed
Emily Dickinson could sing?
Who knew.
bw
As I recall, Richard in "Sizzle" was new to the company. Linc and Daisy ("Cinderall Deal") start in one town and move to another.
jaznewy...Jugglers add zest, novelty,& energy while yipping. I think I'm tireder than I thought.
Jenny has some essays on the romance genre on her website (when you get to her site, click the nonfiction button on the left sidebar) that do a good job of explaining the worth of the genre. I particularly enjoyed the one about romances rewriting patriarchal fairy tales.
Yodelers tell about blue daffodils? Goodness! And this time, I really am going to bed! Night, all.
Bon Cheri Bomb--
I laughed out loud at your two stories post, because at grad school, my husband had a writing prof who gave this version of the only two stories:
A stranger comes to town.
Somebody dies.
I'm going to tell him your two!
On my nightstand:
Harrowing the Dragon, by Patricia McKillip
Testament: The Bible and History, by John Romer
Airborn, Kenneth Oppel
Night Frost, by RD Wingfield
Learning from the Left: Children's Literature, the Cold War, and Radical Politics in the United States, by Julia Mickenberg
Cheers,
MelZD
oh, and just wondering if someone knew what "book art" would be? i keep thinking designing the covers but that seems wrong so...
um...books...Pride & Prejudice? (i really don't remember much about this, just that each sentence was about three pages long and for a 100 something book it was a LONG read)
John's Bathroom Reader? oh, wait, he has history pieces of people invading...
are we including nonfiction in this?
well, the two genres i've been reading won't help at all: fantasy, in which they leave town on a quest/journey, mostly to fight a war, and mystery, where the killer and/or cops come to town.
must spend my sleeping time thinking.
and does anybody else find it funny how many books we each have near our bed? i went to the library today with 2 friends (all the cool kids are doing it) and when i said, "i wonder if i can check out another book because my library card may be full (30 books limit)" one of them gave me a weird look. nice to know i'm among good company
bon cheri bomb: anybody can offer moot points. esp. when someone answers hard questions, or when someone offers them to answer hard Q.
melzd: i like your rules too. i think (for the YA out there), we should add:
someone soul-searches. (or is that one too obvious to?)
red: kzmrjs
killing zebras makes real jokingly snails
talpiana said...
Tekno Books is one of the leading and most successful book developers in the world.
I worked for a small place in Baltimore. They did some things similar to HP Books with cookbooks, i.e., buying up the US copyright (or maybe English-language rights) to foreign cookbooks. One of the projects I worked on was the official cookbook of the PRC (at that time) national culinary school. I got that gig because I was already teaching Chinese cooking. Basically, all I had to do was fix the English translations they provided (v. funny, some of them) and word process the package for them.
I've met writers who work for the biggies, doing coffee table books and fairly high profile cookbooks (sorry, that was my gig at the time). They were well known within the industry, but almost none of them had their name on their work. To get that in a slick book was a really big deal. Almost like being a ghost writer, except you're allowed to tell people and put it on your resume. I did some ghost writing, too. ;+))) Man, is that a trip and a half.
zdjwyjoo (blue)
zydeco dancing just while yelling, "Jenny!" often occurs
Plagiarism is a really important topic for a writer. What's the difference between following the "formula" for a genre, and plagiarism? What happens if you lift a plot device from someone's story, but put it in your own words, change the characters, and alter the significance?
It's a question that has been bothering me quite a bit lately. Shakespeare said there's nothing new under the sun (iirc), and some people say he was ripping off "famous" writers left and right for plots to his plays.
What's the difference between riffing and plagiarism?
(Sorry, this is the first I've heard of the Harvard girl; did she lift actual paragraphs from writers, or did she do something more ambiguous? I will have to google this one.)
For the record, I think stealing words wholesale is wrong; if you take the words, you should credit them. But where exactly do ideas, and snips of thoughts, fit in?
There's supposed to only be 8 (have also heard 26 which is a wildly different figure) orignal plots in the world and writers just put their own spin on them.
Sobering thought.
gdswblac - grammar describes sentences and words but loses all clarity
Miki said: "What's the difference between following the "formula" for a genre, and plagiarism? What happens if you lift a plot device from someone's story, but put it in your own words, change the characters, and alter the significance?"
I'm not sure I ever looked at plagiarism (maybe after these posts I'll learn to spell that word correct the first time - or not) with that in mind, looking at idea as well as actual word theft. You made me curious so I looked it up. M-W online defines plagiarism as:"to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source."
So I would also wonder how borrowing a plot device and making it your own would fit in that category/definition. Especially after the prior discussion concerning the two elements in every book. For that matter, day in and day out many of us have the same type of things happen - lost keys, car trouble, fight with family - does the line between what actually happened and our storytelling embellishment of said happening ever cross with the eight million books we've read?
How much of idea and intent is covered by oral history? That's something the lawyers are trying to figure out in the case of that professor in Colorado. If I understood it correctly, he is stating some of his references were oral history and therefore unable to be verified and cited in the regular manner (needs to check that APA manual).
Okay, on my desk & often the ottoman at home:
- Naked Conversations: How blogs are changing the way businesses talk with customers
- From Cover to Cover: Evaluating and Reviewing Children's Books
- The Peanut-free cafe
- Sky Boys, How they built the empire state building
- Blogs, wikis and podcasting
- Beginning CSS
- Graphic Novels: Stories to change your live
- John, Paul, George, and Ben
Yes, yes, several are kiddie lit/juvenile fiction. Part and parcel of the job. ;-)
After thinking about this a while, the fact that the young lady is attending Harvard is an important point. There are more kids than slots, and it is a big deal to be accepted there. Think about the kids who have the same academic standing but didn't get accepted because they didn't stand out. The book deal had to help in that regard.
On literary style or tract housing, I found the following, an online writing course:
"E-jits Guides: Writing for E-jits". http://www.p45.net/ejitsguides/writer/4.html
"On the surface, literary style might seem to be an elusive substance. But usually it's just a simple formula."
"In one tutorial, we gave our students an assignment to write a short story involving all the important ingredients - Nobility, Emotion, Sex, Religion and Mystery. One student handed in the following story:
"My god!" cried the duchess. "I'm pregnant. Who did it?"
(The whole "course" is a hoot).
hmcwxep: heroes normally mix culprits with xtra(cheating, tsk,tsk) essential plasmids
melzd wrote: A stranger comes to town.
Somebody dies.
I'm going to tell him your two!
Ok, but be sure to tell him it isn't MY theory. If I knew to whom to attribute it, or blame for it, I would do so. Seems I'm guilty of plagiarism (ha! got the second "i" in there this time) by way of faulty memory. And it could be I remembered it wrong. It might have been "somebody dies." But I don't think that was one of the two I read about.
BTW, one of my DD's teachers requires students submit their essays to a website that checks for plagiarism. Can't remember what it's called though... hmm, seems to be a recurring problem for me. Must be senility.
And I don't have any books in my bedroom. I'd never get any sleep.
bw
rccbd: real cherrybombs can't be discouraged
deb, thanks for that link. They were all great, but my favorite was Lesson #3:
http://www.p45.net/ejitsguides/writer/3.html
bw
uocqhqk: blogger clearing its throat
Orangehands said: nora, when you said "Sizzle, The Cinderella Deal, & Trust Me on This" were on your nightstand, all signed, were you bragging?
Not bragging (sorry if it came out that way) just bursting with joy! I bought them all through the eBay fundraiser for Michelle. Other dear, dear Cherries donated *their* signed books for auction. They all came in as one, big package yesterday. I was mega-thrilled. :)
Am almost finished with Cinderella Deal and am loving it!!! Wish I could be home reading it, instead of here at work reading the blog over break! ;)
Deb said ... On literary style or tract housing, I found the following, an online writing course:
"E-jits Guides: Writing for E-jits". http://www.p45.net/ejitsguides/writer/4.html
I love it!
(blue) ftrkflkb: Flowering trees rise knowingly, flying like kites beyond.
I don't have books on my nightstand, I'd never sleep eitehr. But the trunk, side table, kitchen table, bathroom vanity, living room floor are all covered. Right now I'm int he process of reading To the Edge by Cindy Gerard
Good news for a change by David Suzuki
The Comeback Kiss by Lani Diane Rich
THe writer's Toolkit by a god among men
Alone by Lisa Gardner
I just finished Alesia Holliday's entire backlist, what a hoot
I've discovered I'm not particularly genre driven. I like a good story told by a great voice. And am open to tryi new voces all the time. Cherries haven't steered me wrong yet.
I'll be taking the laptop back over to Scope Dope this evening so she can get her daily dose of CB's. It might be long as I'm sure she'll have plenty saved up to say. We're still debating HQ's formulas. It might be semantics.
I went online to try to find the source of the quo