Warning: Some Violence and Much Strong Language.HE WROTE: It’s a Marathon
Written on Wednesday:
Writing a novel is like running a marathon. I used to run those things back when I was younger. Actually ran Boston a couple of times. Anyway, you’re not going to finish a novel in a day. Or a couple of days. It’s a long haul.
The key is to work at it all the time. You work in increments. A little bit at a time, all the time, gets you there.
One of the questions that constantly comes up is “what is your work day like as a writer?” There are some writers who follow rigid schedules. X number of pages every day. I don’t do that, but I guess I do follow a pretty rigid schedule of working pretty much every day. I’m thinking in November of taking maybe a day or two off if AGNES is in with no major rewrites required, CHASING is on the market, or even better sold, and nothing else unexpected comes up. But something always comes up. Right now on my desk I have the notes for Agnes (two spreadsheets: the story grid and a week calendar along with numerous emails); a printout of CHASING THE DEAD where I just did a rewrite of a couple of key scenes today to tighten down the plot and printed those scenes out; and the galleys for a book coming out next year that I have to get back soon to the publisher (I hate reading galleys). On Jenny’s own blog, she mentions all the books she’s working on. It starts to pile up after a while. Not that we’re complaining. We love what we do.
So I started working on Agnes at 7:30 this morning and it’s 7:30 in the evening now. In between I did go for a bike ride. But other than that, I’ve been at my desk pretty much the entire time. Nibbling away. Well, ok, I went over and laid down for about a half hour trying to figure out who they would suspect was sending the first hit man to whack Agnes. Not who was actually sending the hit man, mind you, but who they (Shane and Joey the Gent and Carpenter) would think was sending the hit man. That’s when you really start getting headaches, when you have to get into the mind of your characters and figure out what they’re thinking and feeling.
Written on Friday-- aka Today:
I watched the first two episodes of Season One: DEADWOOD last night, because I’d heard it was a good series and I watched some of a current season episode last week and I was sufficiently intrigued and confused that I knew I had to start at the beginning. Buffy it aint. I told Jenny she wouldn’t like it. I just went and rented episodes Three through Seven for my weekend entertainment in between writing Agnes. I knew Deadwood was going to be wicked from the opening scene when the sheriff hangs the man and helps him die by grabbing his legs and pulling down on them to help break his neck. Yep. Larry McMurtry would write something like that. Which reminds me of MAN ON FIRE with Denzel Washington which I watched again the other night, which is sort of a movie for ex-SF guys, like Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner by Warren Zevon was our song. I love the scene where Christopher Walken is explaining Creasy (Denzel) and he says: “A man can be an artist... in anything, food, whatever. It depends on how good he is at it. Creasey's art is death. He's about to paint his masterpiece.” And then Creasy goes out and does it. Or one of his targets begs for a last wish and he answers: “I wish you had more time.” And kills him. Ok. See, that gets me in the mood to write Shane meeting the infamous Tootaloo brothers in Savannah trying to find out who put the contract out on Agnes. Except maybe the contract isn’t on Agnes. Maybe it’s on Shane. Who knows? Where, Moot, by the way, makes a cameo appearance.
So where was I?
Lisa: What are you gonna do?
Creasy: What I do best. I’m gonna kill ‘em. Anyone who involved. Anybody who profited from it. Anybody who opens their eyes at me.
So. I’ve blogged. Back to the book.
168 Comments:
Yeah, that's Bob. Our egg.
Hi Bob. Thank you for the blog.
My Dad really likes Deadwood. Guess its a guy thing. He's taping the series, I think. I think its all the episodes. I know he watches it and tapes a lot on DVD mostly. So if you are looking for back episodes, let me know. I'll check with Dad.
Is the book coming out next year LOST GIRLS? Cool. Also looking forward to Chasing. Feel like we've got a vested interest in that one.
The Tootaloo Brothers. See that scene is already funny and I haven't read it yet.
A Moot cameo? Waaaay cool. A GF borrowed my copy of DLD and loved it, has since moved on to some of Jenny's. Told her you guys were working on the new one and she asked after Moot.
Yay, Moot!
"Increments" is about all the time I get when it comes to writing lately, what with this so-called "real" job of mine and all, but keep plodding along I shall.
Oh, and Hi Bob!
Bob - and I thought what went on inside my head was weird. Although I know what you mean about getting inside your people's head, and the headache it creates.
Bob - What kind of chair do you have? You see, I need a new one because my butt feels like my head these days, (CB's don't go there!). Anyway, since you were in the chair for almost 12 hours yesterday, except for a bike ride and a half hour rest, your chair must be very comfortable. Mine, not so much.
Deadwood is good, although I've been known to fall asleep during it. DH doesn't understand why books keep me awake and TV puts me to sleep. MAN ON FIRE is my favorite Denzel movie. That one actually kept my attention and i didn't even snooze, not once.
I hope moot is nice to the Flamingo.
Welcome, Bob's blog.
A cameo by Moot...great!
Looking forward to this book!
And the others...currently reading Area 51-Nosferatu.
In the first series of "Deadwood" number 2 Son and friends were extras.
Good series.
hfantz red
high frequencies (mean) ANTZ
we are plagued with them
amc wrote: Yeah, that's Bob. Our egg.
Our surly, violence prone egg.
See, he needed the CB's to provoke him into surliness so he could channel some of that rage into Shane doing something other than sitting around complaining.
[Note to self: keep eyes closed around Bob.]
Thanks for posting, Bob. You know, you're supposed to feel complimented when folks miss you. Especially CB's, who have higher than usual standards and are very discerning about whom they will pester. To death.
bw
BCB - "Note to self: keep your eyes closed around Bob." ARE YOU NUTS! I think it's best to keep your eyes wide open around that man! Adorable as he is.
"Have higer than usual standards" um, and you hang around me? Geez, your standards are slipping there BCB - oh, I just dished myself didn't I. Yeah, well I'm going to hell in handbasket anyway. Yep, I am. Or maybe I'm already there. Had to pull children apart again this morning. This time they were fighting over a golf ball! Can you believe that. I mean really, we have like 500 of them around the house! Will this fighting ever end?
Oh, and I got a phone call from my husband, driving home from NH with daughter who is HURT! again. Seems she got slammed into the boards and hurt her shoulder and needs an X-ray. they are driving all the way home though before we take her to the hospital (where doctor friend works) Who gave my kids permission to play this sport anyway.
And just so you know - the only time my daughter has gotten hurt in hockey is when she plays girls - not once on the boys team. Oh, and my son, broke his wrist subbing on his sister's team during a scrimmage. The other coaches said it was fine, since he's two years younger and he promised to be nice. Ha! The girls should've promised to be nice and he couldn't even hit back because his mother would have flattened him. He came off the ice, cursing that girls didn't play fair! Yep, they don't.
Sigh, it never ends in this house. Dang, and I thought we'd be going to the lake to visit jaws tonight.
So you posted. Good on ya mate. About bloody time, too!
Hello all from the land downunder.
Met DUG last night. She's great. She was in costume, I was in a half a costume ... no I did not lose it dancing on the table. *grin* That's J-T who does that stuff. I mean I did a regular dress, threw on some long pearl headress and a boa. You won't see photos as neither Dug nor I had a camera. Thank goodness.
Conference is going well, got to talk with Debbie Macomber and her agent, Paula Eykelhof last night. Both lovely ladies. The Aussies have to be the friendliest people in the world. I love this conference, I swear there must be jealousy somewhere but I don't see it or hear it. Everyone just welcomes you with open arms, shares info, and even the multi-pubbed don't take themselves so seriously. It's verrrrry refreshing.And everyone mixes at the same parties none of that B.S. that goes on in the States where everyone breaks into their private parties and select groups and we newbie writers get to interact only with other newbies.
BOB, your Novel Writers Toolkit book was for sale in the bookfair. I encouraged several people to purchase it. *grin* NO COPIES of Don't Look Down. I was surprised by this. It would have been a great opp to get your book out there pre coming over for National next year. Oh well.
The J&B blog is pretty popular with Aussies though and there are many Aussie lurkers. I know, I've spoken to them.You guys will be so welcomed next year, you'll have a great time.
Got to go take a class.
rg
RG: I'm glad you're having such a good time! And that's the key to good costumes - do it all with accessories, so that you don't have to actually sew or buy a single-use item.
rxgmrnm: like an oxymoron, only worse
Working in 'increments' is generally far better than working in 'excrement.'
Love DEADWOOD. Thought my hair would curl from ALL of the swearing, but the thing plays like some Greek tragedy and the characters, FAB.
Now I must learn what a story grid is. Visual aid needed -- in oh so many ways.
As always, thanks Bob. Carry on.
Good for you Bob you blogged and you are working. That's great. Thanks for a look into your life. When I write a murder mystery I am using you as my protagonist. You seem to love all that blood and guts stuff. /.D
I too have been plodding away. I don't seem to get a lot done, although I did do a lot of editing last night, not much writing.
rg I love Love love Debbie Macomber. If you get a chance to thank her for me please do so. I love her books. I have to admit I haven't read any lately but I read all that was available here before. Glad you are enjoying yourself. BUT where are my pictures? I want to see downundergal too. I wanted to see you all dolled up like...who? Have fun!
blue mqemj
Maybe quit eating M&Ms Jenny. Horrid thought, not eat chocolate?
he blogged. *wipes tear from her eye* that's our egg. :)
what's a galley?
my dad does translations for my mom when they watch Deadwood. i liked the Man on Fire movie. i watch how films are filmed also, and i like how they did the writing when he spoke. very cool.
rg: sounds awesome!
Aussie lurkers, come out, come out, where ever you are. (well, we know your in aussie land, so never mind). but come say hello. we won't bite. well, some of us will, but in a very nice way. :)
Galley's are like the author's final chance at their ms before it goes to the printer. IOW, you better not be wanting to make numerous or big changes at that state of the game unless you've got a hugely good reason. I don't know about now, but they used to send them out on big, long strips of paper, so they were a mess to deal with. Still true, Bob? Or anyone else who knows, of course.
xpfardo (green)
Xavier protested five angry red devils outright.
Louis, they were extras?? Cool!
RG - I adore Debbie Macomber. Do tell her the CB's said hey and thanks for the great reads. Jenny and Bob won't be jealous.
Bob - See to me that would be the hardest part of writing for a living - treating it like a job. I don't know that I could ever be my own boss. I'd be too apt to procrastinate. I'm discplined at my job, but then I have to be.
Bob, I've been reading back over some of the bits and pieces you and Jenny of doled out on Shane and the Food Critic, and I keep thinking, Hot Dang this book is going to be good!
Galleys...OH
unbound printed sheets of a book.
Or the Pirate's kitchen on his ship.
Down under luckers...Come Out, Come Out, wherever you are...you will be very welcome.
Give us the Downunder viewpoint.
cnmzfq red
Crusie needs much zip for quotas
well blogger stricks again
eghfhs blue
every good hand feels her skin
never thought I'd see the day I'd be chastising Louis and Orangehands in the same sentence, but here it goes. Quit pestering the Aussies. They're busy. They have a national conference going on right now. The Conference is over on the 13th (I'm assuming that's Celsius so for those of us still using standard that would be 55, not that I remember that on my calendar, but whatever) Anyway, back to the chastising. Pick on them in a few days. Pick on them really hard. Make the shy ones look like something out of Hitchcock's The Birds if they don't speak up. But, leave them alone right now.
And there's SDCB. Telling us she has an abcess tooth that needs to be pulled so no one asks her about the missing tooth when some of you see her in NJ.
I'm telling you, Scope Dope, one of these days the cops are going to stop being so nice because you're older and are going to throw you in the pokey with all your other beer-brawling friends. Don't call me for bail.
You think I'm joking, but I've MET HER. I know what she's really like. ;)
CC: LOL! I'm going to practice my singing, a la the Munchkins: "Come out come out whereeeeever you are..." [Bob, count your blessings I've spared you from that.]
But how will we know when we've entrapp-- geez, almost gave it away, when we've coerc--, not better, um, when we've warmly welcomed ALL of them? Good thing none of them understand American English, bless their hearts. C'mon you Aussies, gear up for after conference. We've all been cast off by Mother England, so we have lots in common. Well, you all were criminals and we all were mere ruffians and upstarts and traitors and... never mind. We have lots in common, talk to us. If we find any differences, we'll celebrate them. No wucking furries.
RG: Glad to hear you're having such a good time, but really, you need to stop telling lies about which one of us was dancing on the tables in Atlanta. Nor did JenT remove any clothing -- not in public anyway. She hardly wore any to begin with and had blessed little to spare for removal. Of course, if I had a bod like that, I wouldn't hardly wear any either.
bw
tlltlpp: too little too late, people
MCB wrote: I'm discplined at my job, but then I have to be.
Well, yes. Same goes.
You MIGHT try applying a bit of that discipline to your skills as a passenger and traveling companion. Just saying.
bw
hofvt: high occupancy lane for MCB, who has become quite the favorite
Please, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me Moot eats Princess!
lsczf -- Let ScopeDope choose Zaza's furs.
bcb I think you and mcb should collaborate and write down your trirp to Canada story and market it. It is funny.I told her that too. You could be another bob and jenny /,D
Okay glamour geek I am putting a contract out on you. you weren't supposed to tell them that. Now they all know I am the next fugitive on American's Most Wanted. But I have put on a fat suit since you saw me so no one will recognize me. Ha Ha Ha.
Back to work
green bwwsnj
Bob worries writer's (who're) saying nothing, Jenny.
CC....ooops!
Downunders...ignore me for a few more days ....
Then pay attention!
Speak up!
Robina...keep reporting...eagerly read.
hwmve green
how would many volunteer evenings
Aussies: okay. i will leave you alone. for a few days. someone tell me when the conference is over so i can start annoying aussie lurkers again. (i know, i know, it's the 13th, which is apparently 55, but i won't remember that. my mind is going.)
i meant welcoming them, not annoying them. yeah, that's right. welcoming.
thanks for the galley explanation.
hey, it's only the aussie lurkers i have to stop annoying, right?
ok, rest of the world lurkers, get your butts out here. we need something to entertain us while J&B write and don't blog. "come out, little darlings, i have chocolate"
Yes, Orangehands. You only have to leave the Aussies alone. You may bug the rest of the world.
Just played with the bathroom floor. It's messy. I'm starting to wonder why I got rid of my apartment. Off to make another mess.
ewsokkt- the sound made by a nail as it is pulled out of the floor.
CC: what exactly are you doing to that floor?
CONGRATULATIONS THERESA IN PGH!!!! (in case you missed the other ones)
RG - Glad you are having fun downunder! Even glader you have popped in here to say hello - but, lets leave the dancing on table tops out of it. I only do that on special occasions and someone borrowed my pole when I went to nationals and I haven't seen it since. Those dang partiers, geez.
BCB - Now I'm blushing. My bod ain't all that great, trust me, I've seen me naked, not a pretty sight. And, for the record, I did wear clothing at nationals, and was all covered up, well excpet for maybe Wednesday, okay, that outfit was a little, well, reveling. But if you pop over to my blog, there is a picture of me from nationals on Thursday at the Pro Retreat and you will see, I was fully clothed, holy long sleeved shirt and all!
SDCB - um, I think the eye patch will give you away!
Now on the the daughter thing. After some debate, I took my daughter to the ER, again. This time for a problem with her shoulder as I explained earlier. Poor kid, she has a pulled ACL. I have to take her to a specialist next week for follow up, but basically she's out for the next two to four weeks. She's devistated. She tried so hard to hide the pain, but she can't raise her arm up. Thank goodness nothing is broken, and it's not her head, again, but geez, the poor kid can't catch a break. She had a very important try-out for an elite team on Monday and now she won't be able to go. We have her written recommendation, but it's likely they won't take her if she doesn't skate. More girls trying out, than spots available.
But mom is glad to have her back.
Sleep well CB's, and Bob and Jenny.
Tal - Thanks for the chair info. I'm checking into it in the morning. I'm trying to talk my DH into him getting a new chair, because i like his.
Good night.
JenT wrote: well excpet for maybe Wednesday, okay, that outfit was a little, well, reveling
Yep, lots of revelry going on that night.
SDCB wrote: bcb I think you and mcb should collaborate and write down your trip to Canada story and market it. It is funny.I told her that too. You could be another bob and jenny
Geez. First of all, we already wrote it. Here. Anyone demented enough to want to read it, already has. Second, are you crazy? Are you trying to get us both killed? Another B&J?! Right. Scope Dope, you are just adorable. [grin]
Wishing you all a good night's sleep.
bw
rwfmcrq: Romance Writers of FMCRQ (one of the USSR spin offs)
JJ: for your DD, poor baby. ((hugs))
ok, see you sunday (hanging out with friends all sat, which means most of the night too, and not sure i'll have time to post tomorrow morning). so, bye. try not to do anything...umm...i'm trying to think of a sane person on this blog that you can follow their lead on but nothings coming.
catplypb: cat platypus. a new animal. tastes like chicken. (hey, better than my first reaction, cat playboy)
BCB - leave me alone. My nails are long, the keyboard small, I can't spell and I'm dyslexic! Geez, why must you always pick on me!
djztxxe - dribble jelly, zulu time, xaiver? xaiver! eugenics.
Someone's got to do it.
bw
BCB - yeah, well, it's bad enough I get it at home. Geez.
xejrclkd - x-ray eggs, jerked recklessly caring little kids down.
OH - don't party too much!
rttyko - umm, don't know.
Tal,
I was catching up with previous comments and saw your picture links. The one of the kitten reminded me of the time I was working with Bob's kitten on a SF operation... well take a look.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75144372@N00/213155040/
Oops!
Which is identical to the first link that I couldn't see until you fixed it. You were there, huh?
Talpianna: LMAO at the idea of moot eating Princess. I vote she then be rushed to a vet because of silicone poisioning :-)
So happy to see Bob blog. His blogs are always sorta surreal and zen. Like he understands the voices that are sent by the Mothership.
I also would like to see Aussie posts. Ever since I read Bill Bryson's travel book "In a Sunburnned Country" I have wanted to go there. Had a friend go for the Transplant Olympics (She had a lung transplant and won a medal -- all cheer here) and she raved how it was the absolute most friendly place on the earth bar none. The closest I've come to Australia is the fact my husband spends a good bit of time down under :0)
Let me know if my crude humor makes anyone faint or dizzy. I know some of you are delicate flowers.
Jen-T: I really think I should get my little girl Tweety Bird into Hockey one day. She seems potentially descructive. I like that. I'll rename her Bobette.
JenT mistakenly wrote: BCB - yeah, well, it's bad enough I get it at home. Geez.
Nonono, what's bad is when you can't get it at home. Oh. You meant grief?
You know I love you. Well, I'm off to the races. Might accomplish everything early today, as it is COOLER here and that means I can move a bit faster without risking heat stroke, so I'll talk to you all later.
RSS: I'm supposed to breathe? That would result in increased blood flow and oxygen might get to my brain and those two remaining cells might kick in and I might have a coherent thought and, geez... what was I saying? Oh yeah, I might come to a realization and decide to hell with it. And THEN who would make dinner?
Hope you all do something productive today, however you define it. [Ex: A nap can be productive, if what you're hoping to produce is a calm, relaxed, well-rested feeling. So I've heard.]
bryan: I love those kittens.
bw
beebsu: nickname of that really perky girl in HS
Hey.Okay so I really did party tonight. Sat with DUG and her hubby Mark and a nice group of their friends. Drank just a little too much wine (DUG's fault). Mark's a great guy and I really get his humor. Short on words, cuts to the chase. I told him he was my shared date because as usual I was solo. *sigh* You guys have to help me find a nice bloke. Someone about 50-60. Doesn't have to be wealthy and I don't like pretty boys, nice rugged good looks, great sense of humor, likes dogs, walks on the beach and lots of s ... what were we talking about?
Oh yeah, awards dinners. Anyway Mark's and my joint version of what the awards dinner should have been like (it was very elegant) a keg of beer a few buckets of shrimp a pig on a spit and a few rolls of paper towels (for napkins, silly.)
Anyway everyone was dressed to the nines. DUG had a gorgeous turquoise necklace and earrings on (plus a dress, *grin*) She did an amazing job organising this event. It really was classy. I got to meet several gals I've communicated with and two ladies who have critique groups with women in my RWA chapter in L.A.
But the very best was DUG. I feel like I've known her forever.
She asked me to say she's still inundated with stuff for the conference and then tomorrow evening will pack to take a much needed holiday in Victoria. She said to say hi from her and that she's having severe blog withdrawal symptoms and probably won't get back to make comments for at least a week, but that she misses you all.
Conference is over for me. Jenny would be so proud of me. I took a collage class and made a fab collage of my current book. They put it up on a notice board with a couple of others and it was fun to hear peoples comments without them knowing it was mine.
I leave early in the a.m. for Cairns and points north. I'm researching my tropical adventure book. Most likely won't find internet access so it might be a while before you hear from me. Hope I survive the rainforest. And the snakes. And the spiders. And the crazy family ...
rg
BCB - You know, you all think my mind is always in the gutter, but I think BCB takes the cake on that one! Geez.
RG - well, I don't think there are sharks where you are going, so you're safe. Okay, well you're on your own with the crazy family.
Good luck finding that Bloke. I'm sure there is one out there, willing, ready and waiting for one hot tomalli such as you to come rescue him.
Dear Bob, Thank you so much for blogging. Your insight into your day and the book were very welcome. I have no idea what Deadwood is, I'll have to ask my boys.
Okay, enough nice. Glad you are working both of you because we want the books, all of them because we've read everything else you've written and it's an addiction. Snapping the whip here.
Blast, we aren't over 100 yet are we. Oh, well. They are working not reading. I hope.
JenT: BF (before fire) I bought a new computer chair because the old one was torn, scuzzy and I was ashamed of it. (Cats, dogs, and three boys: use your imagination) I hated the new one. It hurt my back, my butt, my shoulders, every part of my body so I gave it to DS and took back the old one. I strongly suggest carrying your laptop into the store, pulling the chair up to a desk and working for a couple of hours to check it out. Yeah, I realize the salespeople might get snarky but you can handle that.
So sorry your DD is hurt again. I hope she heals quickly.
The boys will stop fighting in a couple of years when they gang up to complain about you, argue with you, cuss at you under their breath. At least that what's mine did. Our house is so much fun. DS15 did crack up when I heard his mumbled curses and said "Right back at ya"
DH and two older sons will be out of the way for the rest of the day so I'm going to talk DS11 into walking with me and then I'm going to work. I don't think I'll acheive Bob's twelve hours but it's an inspiration. Hear that Bob.
It's gorgeous here today.
RG: Thanks for the update. The Aussie National sounds like a lot of fun.
I plan to join in encouraging (not harassing we'd never harass. Stop snickering people) the Aussie lurkers to stop lurking after the 13th or 55th. Until then, hi.
red cddrht: can't diddle dohingies right haven't time
Note to self. Don't write so much. Blogger doesn't like it.
zzuqdwb red: 'zats zero ubiquitous quadrangles dangling with Bob
I'm in a very strange mood this morning
karathered: Love your humor. ROTFL. Thank you.
RG: Hope the snakes, spiders and family don't consume you and that you find many Blokes so that you can pick and choose.
green inqfzwe: Bloggers telling me to get off my derriere and do sometning else
inquisitive fuzzy werewolves Sticking my tongue out at Blogger here
I loved Man on Fire :) I think it's one of Denzel's best.
RG said..."there are many Aussie lurkers. I know, I've spoken to them.You guys will be so welcomed next year, you'll have a great time."
Bob and Jenny are coming to Australia??? When??? Where???
BCB: LOL
(red) dgaptkr: Daggy girls always pitch their knickers rashly.
rs ... I'm very happy I made you ROTFL. I live to make people ROTFL. It's what I do.
Don't worry about the three boys. Over time, with the right enzymes and a good lab, teenagers become human beings.
My mom was sitting (well, slaving for us) at breakfast one moring when I am my two younger brothers were all in our teens, listing to us bicker and quarrel. Finally, she slammed her orange juice on the table and announced "THIS is why some animals eat their young". My mom. We fear her.
My friend T has a teenager just ready to head off to college. One day he was pestering her while she was trying to work (of course) and she grabbed a pen and snarled "Don't make me cut you, bitch" which is very popular to say in Dallas high schools apparently. Her son laughed til he cried, but then left her in peace.
rg -- may you find yourself up to your lips in hottie blokes. Surely at least one of them will be worth keeping. If not, men are like a box of chocolats ... at least some of them are going to be full of that nasty orange nuget (sp?). But some will be very, very tasty. May all your blokes be good ones!
Warning: random thought
You know how Jenny is annoyed by TDTL (To Dumb To Live) heroines (aren't we all?) ... I think we should start a category called DNP, which will mean Dumber 'n Princess. Now watch Bob give her an arc and character development, just to step on my punch line damn him.
I had natural childbirth. Green Berets with killer pinkies scare me not.
erica Just Jenny is going to Australia next year. She was invited Bob wasn't and I think his nose is just a little out of joint because of it.
jen-t can't DD still skate Monday and try out that way. I know she probably can't hold the stick but her skating ability might count for something. Poor Disaster Lady can't catch a break can she? Is she related to cherry magic sheryl? Disaster Lady is what we used to call her. It's from Erma Bombeck's book, "Just Wait Till You have Children of Your Own".
green fclpnks
For Crusie, literary people need killer sharks. (like snarky agents) /,D
kyrathered - who said princess was stupid? Please people, I'm a princess, and I'm not stupid. No, really, I'm not! Stop laughing.
SDCB - Doc said no skating for fear she'd fall on the shoulder because her balance would be off because she's required to keep dang arm in a sling. We both pleaded with him, but he said no. And, well, we don't want to cause anything like permanent damage or something. Since you and are cosmically related somehow, I suppose our daughters would be too. I must admit, one of my other knicknames was Crash. I got that one from the HS downhill ski team coach because it was rare that I'd make it through the GS run without a major crash. My times during practice were great, and I'd be fine, but when it came to the races, well, I'd lose control and down I'd go. I've broke like 5 bones, had three knee surgeries, a couple of torn ligiments and one concussion. Gee, do you think my daughter takes after me?
I am interested in Bob's statement that he doesn't like reading galleys. I haven't seen a proper, traditional galley proof - the long, long sheets, which were, indeed, a pain to handle - for years, and thought they went out as computer-setting started to take over from conventional letterpress. In my experience, these days even the very first proofs are on standard-size pages (A4 in Europe, fairly close to US Letter size), though not necessarily the size of the final printed page, of course.
Anyone able to cast light on this?
Now my news. I entered a contest for unpubs and pubs with an entry for a manuscript that I'm still not sure off. Bob critiqued it and I made some changes to it based on his some of his thoughts. Thanks Bob, you are an excellent teacher. Anyway, got I call that it's a finalist the contest! yeah me.
So there, leave all the little Princess's of the world alone! We are not aligator food and if one of you brings up either shark food or squirrel food, I'll find you!
menchy - men can help, yep.
The only galley I've seen is the one on a sailboat when my job during races was the "galley wench". My book doesn't come out until June, and it's an ebook, so I have no idea.
I just recieved galley pages for someone else's book that I'll be reviewing. It's printed on 8.5x11 paper, formatted as the page will appear in book form, with markings where the pages would be cut.
This is the only galley I've ever seen, so it's not like I'm an expert or anything.
JT: Congratulations on being a finalist! WOOHOO! Cherrybombs rock!
So sorry about your daughter. Poor baby. It's hard to be disappointed like that for something you were anticipating so much. But her long-term health really is much more important. Like being able to use her arm when she's 18.
Once the pagination has been set, I would call the proof a page-proof: it may still be an early or a final proof, since theoretically there is no limit to the number of proofs. If one is publishing a work with a lot of illustrations, there are separate picture-proofs before they are integrated, and the first integrated page-proofs may have blanks where the figures will be placed.
The traditional galleys were printed on paper that was, if I remember rightly, generally at least the size of two foolscap sheets: our foolscap paper was 8" x 13", so a galley sheet was over 2 feet long. One of the points about these letterpress-set galleys was that at that first proof stage, it was still possible to insert or delete material, because the pagination had not yet been set. This consideration is no longer an issue with computer-setting, since a page does not consist of a portion of a fixed forme or signature any more. The whole process is more flexible.
Sorry, this is all a bit technical. I was just wondering (a) what it is that Bob especially dislikes about galleys and (b) whether it could conceivably be what everyone always used to hate about galleys, namely the fact that they were physically awkward to handle. I don't think it can be that, since I don't believe that the endless galley sheets exist any more.
I always find that proof-reading my own work is difficult, especially if I've already been over it ad nauseum, because I'm not going to find the mistakes because I'm no longer really SEEING what I'm reading, I'm seeing what I expect to find there. Perhaps that's why it's annoying. You really need to use a lot of energy to focus on something with which you are already all too familiar.
Glamour-geek said: I always find that proof-reading my own work is difficult...
Hear, hear! After all, you know what you meant to say, and it is all too easy to correct it unconsciously somewhere between the eye and the brain.
This is why it is so vital for people other than the writer to proof-read at each stage - professional editors and, preferably, also kind friends and colleagues of the author. Even after all that, the gremlins will get in and insert a mistake that just wasn't there before...
:-)
Congratulations, Jen T!
Theresa in Pgh
Persoanally, I like to trick my brain, which sadly is easy to do, like with Monovision. When I edit my own work, I make sure I take a break from it, work on something else for a bit, then come back to it. I'll change the font, single space it, print it out. I even once printed a manuscript in landscape. It's amazing what you might pick up when you change "perspective". Packing up and heading to the lake. Talk tonight when I go to visit Jaws.
GG and Teresa - Thanks! :)
Jen-T: No, not Dumber n' a princess ... it's just dumber 'n THAT princess. I've got a tiara of my very own (not making that up) even if I think of myself as a Queen, not a Princess. A Queen is a princess who has accessed her inner bitch. I feed mine cookies.
And the scene *if I remember correctly* did indicate a lack of savy in her little head. But I am now waiting for Bob to make her the real hitman. Because I made mock of Poor Princess.
Sorry your little one is hurt. Sounds like she's a rip tho. I've got a wee rip myself. Nice to know what I have to look forward to :0)
Crap, I meant to say ... Congratulations Jen-T. I don't know your pen name so please share so I can find you when you get published. You may already be. I am fairly clueless. But many many congratulations on you manuscript getting shortlisted.
That's fantastic JenT. Whoo Hoo.
Kyrathered: I described the difference between Princess and Queen as "just as demanding, but less frivolous" to someone who asked.
On the "I love this planet" list: I went to the farmers' market this morning and the smell of the rotisserie chickens (yummmmmmm) and the knowledge that I had no protein for lunch at home compelled me to buy a half. I couldn't place the accents of the men at the stand, so I asked where they were from. They are Turkish, from Russia. Have also lived in Austria, Switzerland, etc. And are now in California. Hurrah for means of transportation and the ability to meet people from different places!
Including our lovely and multi-continental tribe here.
ekewqu: a type of kayak used by a branch of the Inuit people.
I don't think I added my congrats to JenT, distracted as I was by the thought of galley-proofs. So, congratulations, JenT. :-D
I have the impression that there are quite a few already-published, about-to-be-published and every-expectation-of-being-published-some-day-soon writers in this community.
;-)
Many congratulations, Jen-T, and I'm sorry about your DD. Maybe the two of you can put your heads together to come up with a consolation activity - something she wouldn't have been able to do if she'd made the team, that you'll both have time for if she doesn't. I'm not sure what would appeal - girly stuff, such as manicures or shopping (hmm, not your favorite, I know), or trips to zoos and museums or films. Or maybe she'd enjoy helping you with the little kids' classes.
xqzegar: a fabulous, long-nosed fish
Congratulations... JenT
Keep your DD busy and out of mischief
vlckb red
very likely Crusie kicks butt
Yup, jen-t cosmically related you and me. You were "Crash"? I was, and am, "Klutz".
Must share with you. Sarah, the non-stop talking, singing granddaughter (4yo) is here. She came in with a cherry bag I had ordered for CMS and said, "I know this is cherries because you are Scooped Up Cherry Bum." ROTFLMAO See why she is my next Kachook story? /,D
red njxgm
No Jenny, Xavier gets Mayer.
Scooped Up,
How goes the writing. I had a fairly successful day yesterday. Could have had more but self-edited... check my blog for details. I don't have a good word count since I haven't typed anything but I think I'm in the range of 7,500.
htgpl - Her tiara gets pretty lopsided.
P,S. cherry magic sheryl is the greatest daughter/aunt in the world. In spite of the fact that she is leaving at 3:30 a.m. to go to Watkins Glen and she has worked all day at the library and she will not get any rest any earlier than 11 pm., phew, she is taking her dog Ky and Miss Muffet, aka Sarah, on a VERY long walk to wear them both out. The dog and Sarah will be staying here in town. I just love my perfect daughter, bcb. /,D
DH said to me today as Sarah was singing in the back seat of the van, "Do you remember when this child could not or would not talk, just point her finger and grunt to get what she wanted, and everyone was worried that she might have a problem. I said then that once she started we wouldn't be able to shut her up. Do you remember that? Well...." Men can be so snarky, can't they? Even GAMs.
red jtincn
Jenny takes in neat creatures, n'est ce pas?
JenT: Congrats on the contest final! Not that I'm surprised. Hope you win!
SDCB: I think I love your perfect DD, too. What a sweetheart. Sounds like Sarah is on her way to that status as well.
My dad used to call me "Grace" (guess I come by that sarcasm thing honestly), even though it was my younger sister for whom they bought a football helmet. For a while there they made her wear it every time she went outside -- guess they feared brain damage what with her hitting her head all the time. Little did they know there was nothing to protect. Ooops, did I say that? It's ok, she'd expect me to. Really.
One time long ago I was driving back to Mpls from Chicago with DH and his sister and her 4yo DD, who had just learned ALL THE WORDS to the song "The Rose." For five hours, I am not kidding, we listened to her sing that song. She finally stopped. Blessed silence. And DH said: "Gee, Susie, why don't you sing it again?" So she did. I thought it was a toss-up as to which of us, SIL or I, were going to kill him. But he was driving. Perfectly nice song, but I still can not listen to it.
Off to run more errands...
bw
Hmmm. I don't think Bob said anything about Princess being dumb. I think Princess is probably one of those that are mistaken for being dumb when they are, in fact, smart enough when they have to be.
Jen - woo hoo!! Congrats! Do let us know when they award you the prize. Note I said WHEN, not if.
Tigress: In legal circles when you produce documents for discover they are "bates stamped" with identifying numbers and letters, each page going up in sequence. Its named for the "Bates Mfg Company" which invented a stamper that automatically progressed to the next number in sequence after each use. Today we do all this on computers or with copiers that number the pages. But we still refer to those numbers as "bates numbers."
Long winded way of saying that galley pages will probably always be called galleys even long after they've stopped looking like the originals.
SDCB ... Scooped Up Cherry Bum ... I love it!!! LOL!!!
The weather here is absolutely fabulous today. Spent the morning doing stuff in the garden - very zen, gardening. Then mom and I baked an apple pie because dad "accidentally" bought too many granny smith apples (yeah, right). And now I'm going to check out ReaderWare which someone, probably Tal, mentioned on the Cherry Forums. I'm hoping it will be the answer to cataloging all the books we have in the house.
Then because the weather is so fab, I'm going to drag out the cusions for the patio swing and read awhile I do believe.
Play nice, y'all. Remember, we are snarky - but ladylike. Bless your hearts.
If Bob dislikes reading Galleys, and needs someone to read it for him, I volunteer!
Margarita Cherrybomb said: Remember, we are snarky - but ladylike.
That strikes me as a remark so memorable it is worthy of being inscribed somewhere in letters of fire.
I think that to be snarky, but ladylike, is an ambition that should be held up as an ideal for all young females.
:-D
Bryan said...
I just recieved galley pages for someone else's book that I'll be reviewing. It's printed on 8.5x11 paper, formatted as the page will appear in book form, with markings where the pages would be cut.
I think that's probably an ARC, advance reader copy. That's what they send out for reviews. They may be regular paper, but sometimes they're actual printed books, but with the caveat that they are not the final version.
AgTigress, you'd think that with so much digital that printers/publishers would use computer files, but there are a lot of big houses that still do it the old way. You can tell when they require a hardcopy, rather than an electronic file for the final submission, that some poor fool is going to have to type it in/typeset it. I was amazed and appalled that this was still the case, especially since that's how a lot of mistakes get put into a well-written and edited ms.
I wonder if it's a union thing over here. Our unions are very strong, e.g., used to be (maybe still is) that every train had to have a fireman on board (the kind that shoveled coal into the boiler to make it go), even though trains had stopped using steam decades before. So, maybe printers are required to keep typesetters in their shops, so they use them even though there are much easier ways to do it.
Jen-T, I have an Aeron chair in my office. Although they're expensive, they have a very long warranty, and the dealers are really nice about repairs. Should I mention the time I rolled my chair off the deck backwards? I managed to throw myself out before it went over, but it wedged between two trees. I broke the frame of the seat getting it unwedged. It was either that or cut down a tree. And they replaced the seat without a mumur.
Anyway, they're expensive, but worth it, especially for someone like me with back and neck problems. You can usually find them at fairly good prices online. That's how I got mine. It could be the only office chair you need for the rest of your life.
Also, on that ACL injury? Your DD has all my sympathy. Been there; done that, and it does hurt like a b*tch. You can't rush those tissue things. It's a shame she has to risk missing out on this team tryout, but as someone else said, it's more important to be able to use her arm without pain.
ettnnr (green)
It's that well-know life insurance company, when pronounced by a Bostonian. With a stammer?
Tigress: That strikes me as a remark so memorable it is worthy of being inscribed somewhere in letters of fire.
Now you've done it. Just wait until she gets ahold of the blow torch. It'll be memorable, all right.
MCB: She was kidding about the letters of fire, ok? You just kick back on the patio and relax.
I was wondering, when I noticed Bob had specified on what days he had written his latest post: Since Jenny told him he had to post twice, does he believe that counts as twice? Or was he just trying to tell us he was already writing something before we started whining about it? Which is what I would do, but I'm a stubborn old so-and-so who does not like to be told what to do.
And then I wondered, maybe when we start to whine (and no, it's not time yet, just go relax over there with MCB), maybe we should be more specific. You know, give them topics of interest or suggestions for what we'd like to know. Like the galley thing. Not that they'd comply, but still. Think how helpful it would be.
Of course, given most of us here, I also then thought about that old saying that goes something like "Don't open that can of worms unless you're prepared to eat them all." So maybe not.
Personally, one of the many things I'd love to hear more about is narrative structure vs. the 3 or 4 act structure. I'd even love to hear a good, detailed description of narrative structure (which Bob said in his workshop is used more in other genres than in romance).
But since most of the rest of you probably don't care about that, you'll have to make your own suggestions. Note I did NOT say "be suggestive."
bw
Zaza, in my experience, computer-setting direct from electronic files gives rise to just as many errors as conventional setting in letterpress; they are somewhat different kinds of errors, though.
I sincerely hope that the skills of typesetting are still being preserved, and if the unions are ensuring that, good for them!
Progress is good, but it is also good to retain and pass on the skills of the past. They sometimes turn out to be of unforeseen value in future situations that we have not yet envisaged.
But I am an archaeologist, so I would say that, wouldn't I?
;-) :-)
bcb I still want you and mcb to write your trip to Canada story on PAPER and send it to a humour magazine or something. It is funny. We all read it and loved it. Or start your own Blue Collar Comedy Tour. Go on the road with it. /,D
I haven't gotten any galley proofs yet. I still have quite a bit to write. I have about 17,500 words bryan but that is not close to being finished. I keep editing what I have written and so I am still on page 66 or something. I put it in and take it out. Sounds like you are doing the same thing. CMS and her writer's group say just write, damn it, and edit later. Isn't that what Bob says? Just get it down and you can edit later.
Trying to do that but right now I have been concentrating on my children's stories because I want to put them into a book. It is about a family of critters in a barn. I have most of the stories written but not all of them. I have at least three other characters to write about. I have my lovely CB readers working on them too. Great bunch of CBs.
Have to go the munchkin will be back soon. Lord, give me strength. The silence here right now is deafening. /,)
red nfnsyn
Not fair not saying your name. (All you lurkers.)
BCB - it pains me greatly ... you have no idea ... but I think you might have a point. Him and her drop these bits of wisdom on writing and publishing into our laps and we do actually, usually discuss them ... a little. But that bit might get lost in the morass of comments. So we could maybe highllight some questions for them to maybe answer in the next blog. But early on because otherwise Bob won't see them.
So ...
BOB AND/OR JENNY
The question has been raised ... What exactly does 'galley sheet' mean and how does it differ from copy edits (which Jenny mentions in her Argh Ink blog)? And are they still the long awkward sizes?
~~~
And now I must go bask in the glow of having received praise from the Tigress.
To everyone - Thank you! Kyrathered - no pen name, just me. Jennifer Talty. Click on my name (jen-t) and it will take you to my blog, which will then let you go to my web page. Simple - but first book doesn't come out until June, second book, no release date yet and still waiting on other books. Hopefully, this is my year.
DH has now decided to get in on the chair buying thing, ugh! He drives me nuts, but at least I know I'll get a good one.
MCB: Please tell me that is not a fiery glow...
I was in a room today with several people who could have answered the galley question, but did I think to ask it? I did not. Je le regret.
Scope Dope: Why don't you pretend MCB and I are just a couple more of your children -- ok, half-children or step-children, don't want to mess up the gene pool -- and YOU can write our travelogue for us. I need to focus what little energy I have left on writing something that might have a snowball's chance of publication someday. And standup comedy? No way. I get nervous in front of large groups. Geez. I couldn't even say more than three words to J&B when I met them.
bw
I want to hear about the narrative vs. 3 or 4 act structure, too.
I also would like more info on the structures. Jenny and Bob keep talking about doing the book in 4 acts and I don't think of books having acts.
Scooping Cherry Bum, I love that nickname, your book of stories sounds good.
Someone tell me where the story of BCB and MCB's trip is. That must have been before I started reading the comments and I want to go back and read it.
I'm going to need to invest in a whiteboard or heaven forbid look up Bob's information on story spreadsheets to keep my books storyline straight. Well, maybe I'll start that with the next one.
Someone said something earlier about Bob saying to just write the story and then go back and edit. That's the only way I can work but it means I rewrite the whole thing. That's what I'm doing now. Or I'm reading it and taking notes on how I'm going to rewrite it.
Finished Deb Dixon's GMC book today and was happy to see that I did have a Black Moment in this book. I need to lead up to it a little more I think but the Black Moment is there. Whew.
JenT are you at the lake yet. I'm sitting on the deck listening to the water lap at the docks and thinking of you and Jaws.
The mosquitoes that Bob doesn't notice are biting me so I'm going to head in. The weather is lovely though.
This post has been removed by the author.
RSS wrote: I want to go back and read it.
No you don't, bless your heart.
On the subject of "just write, edit later" -- it is impossible to go back and edit something you have not yet written. I know, I know, you're having a "well, duh" moment, but think about it.
And what Bob wrote in his Toolkit book about writer's block (which I've already quoted but bears repeating) was:
2. Just write anyway. It might be awful, but at least you’re left with something other than a blank page. You’ll be surprised how little difference there is between what you write when you feel motivated and what you write when you’re discouraged. They both come from the same brain.
Of course he also said a bunch of other great stuff, but everyone here has already read the book (right?) so you don't need me to tell you that. As a matter of fact, I had written a "review" of that book several months ago, but never put it in the comments, because it seemed everyone had already read it.
Since Amazon.com is out of the question [grin] I'll summarize: When I read a writing book, I put little yellow stickies on the pages that contain info I think I might want to go back and read again later. I ran out of stickies about half-way through Bob's book (though I didn't need any in Ch. 2, sorry darlin') and realized: this is just stupid, there are as many stickies as there are pages. Great book.
bw
Robin S - yep, I'm at the lake, in my front yard, wrapped in a warm fuzzy blanket, sipping hot chocolate because it's kind of cold up here. There is a wedding across the lake, and they are playing like really bad music.
Funny thing about this editing process and Bob because when he and Jenny wrote the first draft Bob actually thought he was done. Said something like he edits as he goes, but I think that's changed.
Back to writing.
MCB: You might very well be right about Princess. Although I know lots of people who are simultaneously stupid and cunning. I just got the impression that there was a lot of air up there with Princess. However, look what happened with Althea. Much more than I expected. 3D character development -- who'd a thunk it?
agtigress: I'm an anthropologist. Where do you work/school? My academic career is on hiatus while I breed little cute humans as a hobby.
Jen-T: I'll check out you website ASAP. Sadly, I can hear Tweety getting irked with 'just' daddy so I must dash.
Have I mentioned this place is great?
Kyrathered....
Welcome to this group...you fit right in.
I'v been reading away at Bob's "Toolkit"...read a bit then go read something else to let it soak into my brain.
JenT...enjoy your lake.
lacjgaj blue
love all Crusie,Jenny's give-aways and jabs (at Bob)
Dah Dah Dah da Look out jen. Couldn't resist. You rats, you and robin s sitting by the dock of the bay, wasting time...
BTW robin s that is "Scooped Up Cherry Bum". Someone told 4yo Sarah that the significance of the cherry bag for DD was that I was Scope Dope Cherry Bomb, but she came up with her own version.
I read Sarah the Kachook stories and she loved them but she says that in her story it should say she is having a sleep over at Mama and Mampa's house. Who knows...maybe that is how I can change it. And maybe even finish it. /,D
Holy Moley (see that talpianna always thinking of you.
blue xpltzbad
Xavier purely liked that Zaza began addressing Doherty (as Bob).
Scooped Up Cherry Bum...LOVE IT.
I think you should change your name. Kids are smarter and come up with great stuff.
My DD named our fish Bob the Squishy.
Jen T- Congrats. Please let us know when we can get our hands on your books.
Zaza- I'm not sure whether to laugh or cringe but I want to hear how your chair went backwards off the deck and into a tree.
lbooth
Bryan said... Oops!
Which is identical to the first link that I couldn't see until you fixed it. You were there, huh?
Who do you think took the picture?
Jen-T: Congratulations yet again! Of course, considering the cycle of your life, right about now you are being hit by a large meteorite....
MargaritaCherryBomb: Wasn't moi who mentioned ReaderWare; not only have I never heard of it, but I'm not on the CherryForums--just this one and Argh Ink.
AgTigress said:
I think that to be snarky, but ladylike, is an ambition that should be held up as an ideal for all young females.
In other words, we should all grow up to be Alice Roosevelt Longworth....
That strikes me as a remark so memorable it is worthy of being inscribed somewhere in letters of fire.
On a scooped-up cherry bum, perhaps?
olsmhbnr -- Oh, let someone murder her (Princess), Bob--Nora Roberts (would).
eohdyt -- Eohippus Diet--you're allowed to eat nothing but extinct prehistoric horses.
Talpianna comments on others' comments: That strikes me as a remark so memorable it is worthy of being inscribed somewhere in letters of fire.
On a scooped-up cherry bum, perhaps?
Hm. Maybe SDCB (thank goodness the acronym still works) needs a tattoo to go with her gold tooth and eye patch?
Glamour-Geek, doesn't "letters of fire" imply some sort of branding iron?
ixjqzcy -- The little man whose voice in my head keeps telling me to blow up Cleveland
Glamour-Geek,
While generally I yield to no one in my admiration for your fashion sense, if you give SDCB a tattoo in addition to her gold tooth and eye patch, then she'll simply have to have a parrot to perch on her shoulder as well. Next thing you know, she'll be out Depp-ing Johnny himself, and making us all walk the plank.
Now I ask you, is that a good idea? I Think Not.
Talpianna,
To me, "letters of fire" merely implies letters that are being sent to the post office in Chariots of Fire. But then I spent most of the afternoon trying on bathing suits in a very posh store, so my view is necessarily mixed with vinegar and ire.
Mary the Sour
(distant kinswoman to Eric the Red)
red lbddzyv - let's be dizzy, verily
KyratheRed said... I've got a tiara of my very own (not making that up) even if I think of myself as a Queen, not a Princess. A Queen is a princess who has accessed her inner bitch. I feed mine cookies.
ROFL!
Congrats JenT :)
amc said...
I want to hear about the narrative vs. 3 or 4 act structure, too.
Me three.
lbooth said...
Zaza- I'm not sure whether to laugh or cringe but I want to hear how your chair went backwards off the deck and into a tree.
Well, I was working on the deck, with my laptop on a TV tray. I was living in San Jose at the time, and it was hot, the house didn't have AC, and the deck was nice and shady. I gues