Warning: Some Violence and Much Strong Language.SHE WROTE: Oh, Canada, Part 2
Well, that'll teach me to do a blog in a hurry.
First, my impressions of Canada are few and fleeting because my impressions of everywhere we've been on tour are few and fleeting. This is not a comment on Canada, this is a comment on book tours. Unless we're driving, I see the airport, the highway, the conference hotel, then the highway, and the airport. Vancouver airport is lovely, mainly because the walkway from the airplane to customs is suspended above the actual airport and is landscaped or bridge-scaped to be an abstract forest and it's amazing except there's a fountain every ten feet and by the time I get off the plane all I want is a bathroom, so I manage to miss most of the artwork because I'm trying to ignore all the damn fountains. Then we get in the car and drive to Surrey and that's highway. Then we're in the hotel in the middle of Surrey which is, uh, like most American cities. Sorry. I took a ferry once from Seattle to Victoria and my eyes almost exploded it was so beautiful, does that count?
Then cut me a break on the Ewwww stuff. Ewwww is for five-year-olds who don't like their peas, and age difference has never been a good determiner for romantic compatibility, as Harold and Maude will tell you; I'm pretty sure Maude didn't prey on Harold. I'm always surprised by what people see as a bar to romance, like that woman who wrote to the Romance Writer's Report (RWA's magazine) recently and said that the majority of RWA was college-educated, middle-class, monagamous, moral,and married, and that they wanted the definition of romance to include the words between "a man and a woman" because otherwise the organization would be open to infiltration by pedophiles. Even if you assume she was right about the majority of RWA being moral and monagamous (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) let alone college-educated and middle-class (oh, please, we're all demographics), why she assumed any of that would mean we'd automatically agree that gays and lesbians were incapable of romantic love is a mystery unless you go with the general "I think that so everybody else must think that, too" mistake which gets so many of us in trouble.
Where was I going with this? Oh, right. The US has a higher age of consent but it also has little girls dressing like prostitots and sexual content every place you look (hello, Congress), so I'm thinking, Go Canada, land of no hypocrites but too damn many fountains in the Vancouver airport before you get to the ladies room. And age disparity does not automatically mean preying. Especially if I suddenly turn up with somebody cute who's eighteen and says "Dude" a lot. I'm warning you now, one Ewwww from anybody out there, and there's going to be blood on the walls. Especially if it comes from Bob.
Yes, it is time I got off the road and had a nice long rest at home. Why do you ask?
59 Comments:
The rest of Vancouver is very nice too - not just the airport. But I remember queuing so long to get through passport control in the airport that it was just as well I am more impervious to fountain-suggestion than Jenny is.
Damn, just missed it. Thought I was gonna be the first, but the Ag beat me.
I am living proof that age difference is not a determiner for romance. I was 22 when I met my future husband, who was 42 at the time. 13 years, 3 kids and a few dozen frustrations later, we're still here. And I still hear Ewwwwww sometimes from my girlfriends. But not the ones who count.
Oh, and in case there is any question as to who the man in the relationship is, that would be me. LOL I definately wear the proverbial pants.
No eeewww's from me if you can pull an 18 year old toy boy - more power to you.
A Man and a woman? Oh give me a break. God save us from the moral crusaders.
fourteen year olds and- well, how old is Andy? i'm guessing oldish. past thirty. it's eww, even if you are The Cherry's friend.
and what would you want with an 18yo guy who says "dude?" besides the obvious, and he's 18 so how good could it be...
(i was talking about reading, scope dope, i swear to Bob)
yep, large age differences, esp when one of them isn't even legally able to drink, is gross. sorry, Jenny.
and hey, i don't like "little girls dressing like prostitos and sexual content every place you look" either.
but i hope you found a nice bathroom, Jenny.
just saw cate post. well, glad it works for you, but can't really see it. cause all i imagine is the fact he could legally drink while you were being born. and it's not double standards, cause i feel the same way about really old females and young males. just icky to me. works for some people, but not me.
and i know more long-term commited gay/lesbian couples than straight couples, so where's this monogamous shit come in? homophobic assholes. being love is being in love- it crosses gender lines. and being gay does not make you a pedophile- watching little kids sexually is being one.
someone get these people a dictionary, please.
Oh my.
I read that letter that Jenny mentions. And I also read the responses, from various RWA members (including Jenny). I was flabbergasted. As a "college-educated, middle-class, monagamous, ?moral?,and married" person, it sickens me that people feel they have the right to impose their views on others. Am I gay? No. Do I think everyone has the right to their own lifestyles? Yes. Does that mean that I get to tell everyone else how to live? Give me a freakin break.
As to the age of consent and the "ewww" factor, here's my take: Kids are going to have sex when they want to have sex, with whomever they want to have sex, when they think they are ready to have sex. Unless you lock your kids up, they will find a way to do it when they think they want to. Personally, I'd rather have a 14yo with another 14yo, but honestly, when I was 16 I was with a 23 yo. So hey, who the hell am I to say anything, right?
see, this is why i should read other posts too. i was picturing some old dude, not someone 21 (he's being asked to speak at a conference with writers at a young age, how cool is that?). but age disparities- and yes, as ag pointed out, they are just societal taboos- with large numbers i'm just not big on. however, if they are "adults" (even if this is just an aribitury number, and after knwoing some 18yo i wonder WTF they were thinking), nothing is legally or even technically morally wrong with it. i, personally, just don't like it.
though i do know some couple who make it work. cate, for example. and one of my best friend's parents were- i believe- 23 yrs difference.
again, it's a personal preference.
Suzanne Brockmann talks about it in her Max and Gina story.
dee said "Kids are going to have sex when they want to have sex, with whomever they want to have sex, when they think they are ready to have sex."
which is why we need a comprehensive sex education program, that deals with more than "abstinence".
i was asked about a 27yo. i said no, cause it was just gross to me. again, personal choice. as long as your legal, you can do whatever you want to whoever you want as long as you are both consenting. before that, there are some restrictions.
OH: I don't think Mr. Cohen is 21 -- he looks young, but not that young -- Jenny said the cute blonde female in question was about 21 or so.
And thank you, Jenny. You are, as always, all things wise and wonderful.
I think it's interesting that the most vociferous ewww-sayers are among some of our youngest CB's. Opinions do change with age and experience. Sometimes.
Just saying.
And Jenny, I promise not to "ewww" at you if you show up with an 18 yo surfer dude -- unless he's eating peas. Then all bets are off. Some things are just EWWWW no matter how old you are.
Hmmm, maybe Jenny would like to meet Max...
bw
Can I just say "prostitots" made me do a double take - Jenny making a typo? Then of course I got the joke.
AOQQHA (What's with the "Q"'s?!
Awestruck over queenly quips handling quarrel
TAKE THAT BLOGGER!!
Honest the "A" was a "Q" in authentication - eyesite is going...
See, I thought the discussion was about whether or not its okay for an adult to have sex with a 14yo.
Jenny - even you are waiting until the surfer dude is 18.
Age disparity doesn't bother me ... unless one of them is a minor and the other is not. Which is what I thought the discussion was about. Never mind, I'll go back to my corner now.
what's with all this pea hatred? peas taste good.
now spinach is nasty.
huh? oh, were still on topic? well, peas were mentioned...
Yeah, Andy Cohen looks like a nice Jewish man with a good sense of humor. I've known a few of those *grin* Bet he's a transplanted New Yorker. He's got the look.
I'm sure anything he said was in jest. But heck, if he's a normal single man, doing normal single man things, I think lusting after a cute 21 year old blond is just fine. By checking on the age of consent in Canada, he was joking, he was merely mocking his own age and showing male insecurity in thinking he might be too old for her. I already like him and I don't even know him. Hope they hooked up.
And yes, that letter in the RWR. Sheesh. I think I'm going to have to look for a new group, I'm missing one or two of those "m" words. Not telling you which ones *wink wink*
We had a similar issue in our chapter with several people not wanting an authors cover artwork displayed on the website. It's an almost clinch cover of two handsome young guys naked from the waist up. So what? If it's a book about homosexual love did they expect a cover displaying a woman and a man, or flowers and goddam butterflies, or...
Anyways, another reason I'm not running for office next year, I'm too tired to deal with these type of issues.
adldo "A 'Don't Look Down' order, Bob. We're making money," Jenny said and rubbed her hands together with glee.
rg
". . . one Ewwww from anybody out there, and there's going to be blood on the walls." LOL!
If you find that cute 18 year old, and can live through the "dude" comments (which seems to have replaced the word "sweet" of a few years ago), there are promises abound no "ewwwwww's" will be uttered. I'll bet, well, can probably guarantee, Bob will have something more descriptive than "ewww" to contribute to the conversation.
Didn't there used to be an inappropriate saying about getting them young and training them right?
... Just asking.
For myself, I kind of have an age issue. I always think that men I want to date should be no more than 10 years my senior. But when I think about it now, if say George Clooney were to walk through the door (roughly 16 year age difference) there is no way on god's green earth that I would kick that man to the curb. I'd be on him like white on rice.
I'm not going to say I'm virtuous and don't make snap judgements about these sorts of things, but when it comes down to it, to each his own. If you're happy, then I guess it works.
yooso--yooso crazy...
George transcends all eeewwww-ness.
cwrtp - crusie will rip the page
OH sez: i'm guessing oldish. past thirty.
Will someone please make that child go stand in the corner with the dunce cap on? Oldish=over 30? Not hardly!
For the record, I am (well) over 30 and I don't remotely feel (or look) it.
Oldish, forsooth!
Because when I was in my late teens and early 20s I often attracted (much) older men, I made a policy that I wouldn't date anyone closer to my mother's age than to mine. That gave me 12 years difference. Now I think that's less important and really don't care much, but then it was an easy way to say no to those who I wasn't comfortable dating.
Frankly, the men I meet who are my age mostly seem really, really old and that's just sad. Liven up, guys, you're not dead yet!
Then we have Bob, Bryan and Louis who are all quite lively. Despite their advanced (over 30) ages.
And if Jenny wants to date an 18 year old I will not ewwwww at all. I suspect she'd smack him after the second time he said Dude but that's a whole other issue.
Yes, it is time I got off the road and had a nice long rest at home. Why do you ask?
Yes -especially if you turn up with an 18 yo who says "dude" a lot. 18 is ok. Repeated 'dude' is not
Whooohooo ... The Cherry was has responded to our comments. I feel all warm and fuzzy.
For the record, I don't care if a 22 yo woman and a 42 yo man hook up, or a 60+ woman and a 20 something man or whatever floats your boat. They are both ADULTS.
But when one is an adult the other is a minor, I stand firmly behind my ewwwwwwwwww. I date 30-somethings in my early 20's so I'm not ageist ... I just cannot stand predator-prey relationships. And if one person is still a child then it is predation.
So Jenny, rock on with an 18 year old ... if I remember correctly they have great recovery times but very little finesse. But if he's 17 I'll ewwwwwwwww at you and assume a defensive stance.
And why should admitting same sex couples be admiting child predators?????? The vast majority of child molestors are married, heterosexual and (yucky) more likely to attend religious services regularly as a cover. Homosexuals are safer for your kids.
There's my two cents and now I'm off to rock the Tweety to sleep.
And I think Jenny's sensitivity to this issue means she's got her eye on a hot young thing. Hubba-hubba. You go girl (if he's legal).
PS: my baby will wear prostitot clothes over my cold dead body. Which means she'll change outfits at school as a teenager but at least I'll be able to look myself in the eye and know I did my best.
Christina said...
For myself, I kind of have an age issue. I always think that men I want to date should be no more than 10 years my senior. But when I think about it now, if say George Clooney were to walk through the door (roughly 16 year age difference) there is no way on god's green earth that I would kick that man to the curb.
Damn good point :D
And about this RWA thing.... does this mean that my chances of Suzanne Brockmann bringing out a Trouble Shooters book with FBI agent Jules Cassidy finally getting his guy (in a romantic sense) are very small? I hope not... I want to read Jules' HEA :)
erica: no, Jules will have his HEA, i've been waiting on it since she introduced him, i'm annoyed she's working on Ric's book instead, i want Jules HAPPY, dammit, he deserves it. plus, more Sam and Alyssa (though i have to say if i didn't read Gone Too Far first, i probably wouldn't like him as much as i do; so it can be a good thing to read a series out of print. helps that you don't know they are series-ish).
g-g: i don't mean old, old (i mean, i know people technically old with more energy then me, there not old they just lived longer), i just...*sigh* this is what happens when i talk to old women. (kidding! stop throwing things!)
basically, christina summed up the argument.
BTW, since it's appropriate, my housemate came in to talk about a guy she meet, who's in his early thirties (he's at least 30, less than 35), who she wants to date. of course, she thinks he looks like Heath Ledger, but that's a seperate issue (cause he doesn't, at all). so again, each their own.
side note: George Clooney is ok, and lot better than Sean Connery, but come on, he's not that great. (for the love of Bob stop throwing things at me!)
CMS...
Yes, I'm waaaaaaay over 30, at least twice and a half.
The 14 yo body may look mature, and I've seen some that do, but they havn't matured mentaly enough to handle what goes with sex. Even if the partner is under 18.
lfhcrs....green
little fingers have Crusie, Robert stretching
When one is well over 60, practically everyone seems young. Eighteen, 38, 52, 21, 45 - all kiddies... When you have not yet been 28, or 40, or 60, those ages seem 'old': you wait.
Emotional maturity? Are you people saying that NO 14-year-old can ever possibly be emotionally mature - or capable of being the 'predator' in an unequal and not wholly consensual relationship? Because if you are, I think you are mistaken.
Immaturity is encouraged in the young our societies, by giving young people a lot of privileges without much, or any, concomitant responsibility, but in many other societies, past and present, teenagers have been required to take on adult responsibilities soon after they go through puberty, such as earning a living, or looking after younger siblings, and most rise to the challenge. There are many war- or Aids-orphaned families in African countries that are headed by boys and girls not yet out of their teens, because all the older family members are dead. It is an insult to these young people, desperately trying to cope with unimaginable adversity, to say that an adolescent cannot deal with adult life. Our childish teenagers are, at least in part, culturally determined: we like them that way.
And then, of course, some people never do grow up emotionally. Are you all telling me that everyone who is legally adult is emotionally mature? HAH!! Chance would be a fine thing... If that were true, human communities would be a great deal more stable than they are.
Jenny - I hope you find an 18yo "dude", for a copulatory glance if nothing else! No ewwws from me!
And Thank-you Thank-you for all who support the decisions of consenting adults regarding their own freaking love lives. It is our place to legislate, and we can, Nov. 7, at least here in the states on that day. Oooo the jump to that political soap box is just too tempting, especially with my dad here, needed an outlet.
I'm off to huff paint fumes and try to avoid electrocution at the new money pit.
Jenny, go relax with a Nanaimo bar. Better than any arm candy, any day of the week. And it doesn't speak, much less say "Dude."
Agtigress - you make excellent points, as usual. We have a tendency to argue from our own perspective from within our own culture. Which can be dangerous. We forget the whole world does not have the same values or experiences. I'm grateful you come on to remind us otherwise.
Tigress, you make excellent points about the level of responsibility shouldered affecting the level of maturity. And also that the 14yo can display more maturity than someone twice their age at times.
But those teenage years are often a vulnerable time and the young are easy prey for those who know the right buttons to push. Which is why fanatics recruit from the ranks of youth.
On the subject of consenting ADULTS, I don't much care, nor see why anyone else cares, what anyone does. And it frustrates me no end when people get up in arms on this subject; are there not enough real monsters out there? Do we really need to conjure them from our own fear and ignorance?
Hell-o. Guess I won't be needing quite so much Diet Coke this morning. Nothing like a lively discussion to wake up the ol' brain cells.
I didn't even go to my first rock concert until I was 17 (with the parental units), so I'm pretty sure I've been behind the curve most my life. I was interviewed once because I was the only person this girl knew that hadn't gone to prom (oh yeah, that was fun).
One thing that makes me slightly crazy about discussing appropriate ages for life events is the expectation that things happen according to some mythological schedule. I went to college thinking that I would finally have a social life only for find out that dating was dead. You now "hung out". WTH? Really, there should have been a memo on that one.
No wonder so many people do a serious freak out when something is outside the norm, especailly as they near 30. Funny thing is, it isn't until most hit 30 that things finally start to make sense. Go figure.
Yep, I met DH when I was 29 and we married when I was 33. He's two years older. We had to wade through a little "Oh my god, I'm thirty and going to die alone" garbage on my part for a while there.
bhtuyel: Blue herons took umbrellas yesterday, eying laundry.
Second verse, same as the first:
ubptbp: Up buttons pushed together - blood pressure!
Speaking of blood pressure ...
xgupu: Xylophones grow umbrellas purposely, usually.
Even for a Monday, Blogger is really being a (fill in the blank).
kfqdgz: Kites flying quietly dodge geese zipping.
I do agree in general about the vulnerability of adolescents, who are in a threshold phase between childhood and adulthood, but actually, we are nearly all vulnerable in different ways at different stages of our lives. The elderly, for example, are vulnerable too, and this is not because they are physically, mentally or emotionally immature, but for quite different reasons.
I am as fiercely opposed to sexual predation, especially the debauching of children (those who have not yet reached puberty, or those of any age who are mentally or emotionally childish) as anyone here, but it is a vice that cannot be neatly defined just in terms of age. We have just had a horrifying criminal case in this country in which a 14-year-old boy murdered a 10-year-old boy who refused his sexual advances.
It is actually perfectly possible for a very young person to become a sexual predator on older partners. This is not an altogether unusual situation in some elements of the (male) gay community, but I could see it happening in heterosexual contexts too. The young are not necessarily helpless victims in all cases, nor are the adults always in control.
Cherry Magic Sheryl - thank you for your kind words. It is absolutely normal for all humans to assume that the cultural norms with which they have grown up are universal. Some of them actually are universal, common to the human species at all times and places (and often common to other species as well), but an awful lot are not: they are simply culture-specific. The trick is to distinguish between them, and to observe human interaction in different places and times as though you are an alien, an objective researcher from outer space, noting down the behaviour patterns of Homo sapiens. Some of the things one learns that way are humbling. Humans can be both sublimely noble and repellently vicious.
Just had to add another remotely tangent thought about dating.
A dear friend of mine recently spilled the beans about a date from hell that happened months ago. This is a direct quote: "Who the hell shows up on a blind date without their teeth?!"
I think I need to send her the t-shirt.
ssqgfsce: You've heard of Scarface? This is Squeegee Face.
Loved your letter to RWR Jenny.
I'm feeling the love LOL. And if I meet any hot wonderful males, any age I'm sending them your way. My brother just remarried. He's 42 and she's 23. There is no man alive more deserving of a HEA than my brother. :)
agtigress: you are absolutely correct on the definition of norms. I know that teens, if they are taught to assume adult responsibilities in their culture, can then be adults. We do infantilize our teens here in the West. And in some cases the teen can prey on the older adult. However, in most cases the teen is the vastly more likely to be preyed on. Especially since most teens in our culture haven't developed a real solid grasp of consequences. Right now in Indiana a 36 yr old foster father just impregnated his 14 yr old foster child. Now, it is possible, even likely, that she was consentual in that she had learned sex was a way to keep her safe and gain her more autonomy. However, for a 36 year old man who was given the responsibility to protect a minor child from having to do those sorts of things to take the oppertunity to have sexual relations with her ... I think he should be strung up by his thumbs and horsewhipped. Then imprisoned. But you study history and I spent a great deal of time studying child predation and coerced prostitution so we are going to be looking at this from two very different mountian tops. This does not imply in away way that I assume I've got the only 'correct' view from my mountian.
On a happier, less intense note, Tweety Bird can now ask for a banana and point to a circle. Which are 'nana' and 'kirkurl' -- how cute is that?
Hi all.
I'm coming late to the discussion because I've just spent the entire weekend with Gabby and my manuscript. We essentially cut about 125 pages and started from scratch. My original storyline spanned about ten years. I've now got it to less than a year and a half. But now I need to get the important bits of the first eight and a half years (six chapters) into one chapter and still be able to set up "The Beginning". It's been a tiring process (8am Monday comes a lot earlier when you're writing until 4am).
So anyway, age differences.
My Mrs. Robinson was 32 when I was 17. While I wasn't "in love", I'm still glad I had that experience since it set me up for some very positive relationships later in life. But I still kept that relationship secret from everybody (and I really hope my sister doesn't pick today to lurk in the comments).
Now that I'm officially "old" according to OrangeHands, I'm a little less worried about ages and more concerned with the quality of the relationship as a whole. Age still comes into play as far as maturity levels, but I've met some twenty-three year-old women who were more mature than some thirty-two year-old girls.
When I'm wearing my photographer hat, I meet and socialize with more young women than most men my age. When considering whether or not to "hook up", one of my foremost concerns is how that would reflect on me professionally. Perhaps that's not the best litmus test when "eliminating" possible soul-mates... but until I meet a woman who sweeps me off my feet that's a pretty good starting point.
OH, rest assured that you and I can't date until I'm sure we wouldn't get thrown out of my favorite bar because you were underage. A man's got to have priorities, you know.
As to defining a romance as being between a man and a women, I can understand the desire to do so, if not agree with it. I don't enjoy reading the intimate details of a male-male relationship. While I love Jules as a character, if/when he gets is HEA I will likely skip the details. Now a girl-girl scene? I'm there baby! But I'm a guy. I can always imagine being in the middle.
And this will be interesting. Blogger gave me a blank verification.
Ah, followed by "Page cannot be displayed".
Uhm... followed by "Page cannot be displayed" again.
Hmm.
Twenty minutes later. Am I in? Yes!
Noooooo!
Blogger just spewed icky bits everywhere. Thank Bob for CTRL-C.
Ah that Jenny, I'll bet my year's travel budget that she would never hook up with a young, young man. Maybe ten or fifteen years younger but no "dude boy-toy."
I divorced at age 42 and remember being hit on by a hot 34 yr old some time later. I was frankly quite appalled. He was TOO young! Silly, silly me *grin*
Anyway, now that I'm old (thank you OH) *ahem* older, I look at guys who are ten years younger and find we are compatible, at least on a physical, life experience, conversational, and active plans for the future levels.
Unfortunately, here in the L.A. area that is laughable. Guys ten years younger are hooking up with women in their late twenties and early thirties, so I don't date because I feel the men my own age, and older, are fatherly figures.
Many need to sit in front of the tube in the middle of the day, or take a nap. While I know those are physical needs for them, I'm light years away from that. Soooo, maybe I should take another look at the Cherry's plan? Hmmmm?
rg
One of the best Jenny books was the "Fred" book where in the 40 year old divorcee had to accept love with a younger man. That was anti-ewwwwwww. I really liked the storyline. So age disparity is not really an issue for two adults, of either gender.
Bryan, I've read Anne Rice so I am prepared for any man-man HEA action. Be brave! And my lesbian friends are convinced if a straight guy ever got tangled up in "real" Sappho Sex he'd freak out :0)
Alrighty then, it will be a while before I can sneak back because her Tweety is needing Mama. And the baby-on-board is needing food. So I'll try to catch up you wild people later. Ciao!
I read a Black Lace that had a beautiful man/man love scene. Key word - love. While it wasn't something I went looking for, the scene was so well written that there was no serious ewwwww factor. If it icks you out, don't read/watch/look/listen is a great philosophy - as long as no one is harmed by the action. Everyone's disclaimer may vary.
Hey Kyra, thanks for the Tweety update. Let us know when she learns to say CherryBomb and/or Snark.
And OH??? Do remember, dear child, that you are seriously outnumbered by us old folks. We are not yet so feeble that we can't make our way to left coast and smack you. Just on principle, you understand.
My arthtitic knee is acting up today. Must be cuz I'm old, being 35 and all...tehe
I was sort of a Mrs. Robinson once, very briefly (my 29 to his 22). He was quite immature, but that was him personally, not the age. I say if it works, go for it. I mean, look at Demi Moore and whatshisname!
I was 35 to his 21 and that was festive. We're still good friends to this day but relationship wise? Nope. And that has everything to do with our personalities and nothing to do with the age difference.
I've spent most of my adult life puzzling over why I seem to attract really young guys and old foreign men.
Sweet Babou was only 24 and I was 28 when we started dating ... does that count as a Mrs. Robinson? Its my only chance {sigh}
One of my BFF used to tease me about the younger guy thing ... and she married a guy who was born after the invention of the VCR. So we have all kinds of fun yanking her chain. Age & Maturity are very different things, no?
Now I'm off to see what's happening in the new blog. Ta ta for now. -- Kyra
I have no further comment, except that I really like the "prostitot" term. When even little girl clothes are slinky, we've got a problem.
And little girls want to be sexy before they know what sex is. Yuck.
Besides, if you skip straight over from rompers to tight, midriff-baring strapless whatevers, you miss the whole foofy stage - and, while it may not be the thing for us older folk, it's a pretty fun stage. A colleague brought in a flowergirl dress she had made for her ?7 year old daughter - a full-skirted white dress with a bolero and overskirt in a sheer fabric embroidered with pink rosebuds. And a big foofy petticoat to wear under. Too adorable.
yqbsh: young quahogs buy sailors harmonicas
we used to fight, FIGHT, with my goddaughter about what she was going to wear to kindergarten. Five years old and she wanted to wear Britney Spears outfits(back when Britney was all that)Now she's 11 and wearing grunge. Go figure. And boys are still icky thank Bob.
Hmm, I wonder how Bob feels about all his power.
Oh, gotta throw mine in here too...
I was 26, he was 21.
And I had 4 kids to his never-been-in-a-serious-relationship.
And then I married him.
Of course, right before me, he had his own Mrs. Robinson. She was 39. Personally, I thought that was rather "ewww", but that was probably just me being irrational.
diane: i loved that stage. the you can wear zebra shorts, striped shirts, bright colored socks (mismatched, of course), a baseball cap, and not brush your hair and you're still cute. that was a great stage.
one of the scarier things i've ever seen was after that Brittany (sp?) Spears song came out, Hit Me Baby One More Time (and WTF kind of message is that to be sending out), and there were just masses of five year olds in that naughty schoolgirl outfit. it was disgusting. (i see CMS just commented on it too)
one of my mom's friends, who is about 50 or so, still wears tight, too small tank tops, shows off her stomach, and tight, tight pants/short short shorts. now, she has a better body than me and half the teenage girls i know, but it still seems tacky to me. again, it's my personal opinion. of course, when i see anyone, any age, in those outfits, i think it's tacky, so WTH do i know?
bryan: ummm, yeah, technically after i'm "overage" that's not going to happen. but thanks for asking. (LMAO).
actually, about the age disparity thing, it's not even a good indicator, because i've seen women who look like they're no more than 30 and they're in their fifties, and guys who look like they're in their sixties when they are really 35. (how'd i do with all those they'res, theirs, theres, ag?) so basing it on looks doesn't work either, and to just see arbiturary numbers doesn't matter, so really, age disparity is stupid.
and i did really like Anyone But You.
however, Jenny and a guy my age going "dude" is still icky.
but as long as they are legal, consenting adults, go for it. again, as long as it's not minors, don't really care one way or another. (see, this blog is good: i went from ick to whatever). as mcb pointed out, it's not an issue i care about enough to fight hard for one way or another. there are so many other things i care about.
speaking about voting, andi, i not only got my absentee ballot, but i've been working aginst one of the prop's on the CA ballot for the last month now. it's how i spend my saturdays and half my other time as well. my housemates also having a driving urge to kill me when someone new walks in and asks about a sign i plastered around the house.
BTW: people in the states, last day to register to vote!
I loved Anyone But You - it's my fav of all the Cherry's older books. Loved the whole raincoat / lucky shorts thing. Plus there was Fred :D
I thought about naming my pup Fred/Freddy when I get him, (for the JC doggy Fred and for the Georgette Heyer character in Cottilion(sp?) ) but he's the wrong breed... so it looks like he's going to be 'Rupert'.
i think it was here that someone mentioned the "more people live in single households", but i once read that more than 2/3rds of Americans live in "unnormal" family situations, which is why it's important to have the rights that go with marriage for every kind of relationship, whether it is conjugal or not, whether it is among the same sex or not. great article on this is:
http://www.beyondmarriage.org/full_statement.html
ok, i have lots of hw. oh, and Kl and DUG- saw your answers to my questions, responded. basically, it went like this: thanks for answering.
On 'normal' families, I've never been sure what that meant anyway. People talk about the nuclear family of the 50s, but listening to my parents talk about their friends' families - even with a mom and a dad in the house, there was no 'normal' even then. This mom and dad were married, but she got knocked around a lot. That mom and dad were married but he usually drank his pay check. And other assorted stories.
From the outside it might have looked like the Nelson family, but it wasn't all Leave It To Beaver inside. And the kids knew even if the adults didn't.
So what the heck is normal?
mcb there you go being all profound again. I am referring to what you have said about the age disparity and the man/woman relationships and gay/lesbian relationships.
agtigress I am a firm believer that most people live up to expectations. If you expect someone to do well and you let them know they usually do.
I worked with teenagers for years and in one group we expected 8 teens to plan an International conference for 200 people. That meant all aspects of the conference from the place, menu, guest speakers, accomodations etc. Every year a different 8 kids were selected to do this and they did it well. The conferences were held in Boston, Washington and other busy metropolis. There was never an incident were the conference failed. They could ask for advice but the students had to do all the work themselves, even deciding what the focus of the conference would be. They amazed me constantly.
It also worked well on a local level too. The kids had to plan their own workshops and events. I was very proud of these young people.
blue kwbvd
Kindly write Bob's virtual daytimer.
blue sqmbekvj
So quickly Mayer began every killing virtually, Jenny.
scope dope: i helped plan a Youth Meeting between different schools and people in the neighborhood.
i believe that. expect people to do well and they'll try to.
Scope!!! Hi!!!
Erica - Rupert, as in Lord Rupert Alistair? He's so funny! What kind of dog looks like a Rupert? One of the things I love about GH is how delightful so many of the secondary characters are - they never seem to be caricatures or sketches. And Freddy in Cotillion is so a-typical, his dad is more like a hero - very fun.
Good to hear from you, SDCB! Take care of yourself.
efuesg - an abortive attempt to be warm and gushing
Jenny said...
Especially if I suddenly turn up with somebody cute who's eighteen and says "Dude" a lot.
LOL! Go, Jenny! A real cabana boy.
orangehands said...
and what would you want with an 18yo guy who says "dude?" besides the obvious, and he's 18 so how good could it be...
Honey, when you're older, you'll realize the genius of "get them young, train them right." No substitute for enthusiasm and stamina. /;+)
Lynn said...
Didn't there used to be an inappropriate saying about getting them young and training them right?
Ahem. You can see I do my comments as I'm reading. ;+)))
Hi, naked! Long time no see.
lyphyeor (red)
leap year when you're squiffed
pshwa (red)
pshaw, still squiffed
zaza: ugh, what are they, a toy? no thanks. i really couldn't see myself finding a Mr.Robinson either. yuck.
(huh. wonder if yuck is better than ewww)
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