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Monday, October 23, 2006

SHE WROTE: Oh, Canada, Part 3

I'm sitting in my hotel room, all alone so stop speculating, at 8AM, working for the next two and a half hours, all alone because Bob had to leave three hours ago to catch his flight home but he swears he'll be working while traveling the entire day because we'll both get home at midnight (he has hellacious layovers in Houston and Atlanta). [And speaking of Bob and in reference to the free-for-all going on in the comments, for those of you who once thought it would be darling if Bob and I were a couple, I'm more than ten years older than he is, so Ewwww to you, too. Sheesh.]

Where was I? Right, Bob's typing in the friendly skies, and I'm typing in my hotel room. Why? Because we discovered that Act Four was wrong, wrong, wrong, but it's okay because Bob discovered the key to the problem so we spent yesterday when we weren't teaching wargaming it (I used to call that brainstorming back in my innocent solo days) except Bob keeps forgetting I'm here. He was stretched out on the couch in my room staring at the ceiling, and I was on the bed with my laptop on my knees and my notes spread out around me in a semi-circle, trying to keep everything in order while I checked to make sure the flamingos had an arc (no, I am not kidding, you got a motif, you better make sure it arcs, boopsie) and he's saying, "I can fix this, I can fix this," and I'm saying, "I'm right here, Bob, remember me, your COLLABORATOR?" Then he went back to his room and a couple of hours later e-mailed me that he was hungry so I met him in the hotel restaurant and we talked about how we lost track of the five million dollars and why in one scene the entire cast of characters wouldn't have turned another character upside down to find it, and argued out another couple of points and probably looked like loons to everybody else there, and then we went back upstairs to our separate rooms again where I arced the five million and Bob must have beat his head against the wall because we exchanged these e-mails:


Bob: I'm fried. I'll make this work.

Jenny: Remember when WE used to make this work? Is there a reason you're tired of collaborating with me?

Bob: Ok. We're fried. We'll make this work.


But you know he's still trying to go it alone, up there in the bumpy skies across the Rockies. Sigh.

Meanwhile, I'm arcing subplots and cleaning up the first three acts and spiffing up the wedding vows and probably cutting this cute interlude where a little girl runs out of the seats during the wedding because I think it makes Bob gag. And I think we can keep a lot of Act Four which is good because during the worst of yesterday, we thought we were going to have to jettison most of it. But I think most of it is still good, it's just the climax that's bad, and Bob's loading weapons now so by the time he rolls onto his barrier island at midnight, he should have the firepower down, and by the time I see my river at midnight, Agnes should have swung her last frying pan and then tomorrow we explain to each other and swap scenes and we're good for the last polish. Nothing but good times ahead.

And some day I'm actually going to SEE CANADA. You know, besides the airport,the highway,and the conference hotel. I did see Montreal once, at night, during a conference. It was amazing. And I walked through Victoria one afternoon during a conference, that was lovely. I understand there's some real estate in between the two cities. Might want to check that out some time. More sigh.

And now, back to the flamingos, the five million, and the frying pan. The end is near. I'm thinking Wednesday, Thursday at the latest. Get the champagne ready. I'm going home and Agnes really is almost done.

[Note: Bob's birthday was Saturday. I did not forget.]

168 Comments:

At 23/10/06 11:48 AM, bon cheri bomb said...

Happy Birthday, Bob!

Had we known, we wouldn't have forgotten either.

bw

 
At 23/10/06 12:03 PM, me said...

Happy Belated Birthday Bob!

 
At 23/10/06 12:05 PM, Louis said...

Happy birthday, though belated to BOB.

We celebrated my DWs birthday over the weekend...all five kids were here, along with three grandkids...#2 son was "down from Turlock"...that has a nice western twang to it that I like. Anyway, we had a nice eggs benedict breakfast before he left for the drive back to Turlock.

Jenny, I'm sure that between you and Bob, all those "arcs" will wind up in a rainbow of pleasure for all of us when we read "Agnes"

eeeapb...blue

eee...all points bulletin

blogger struck

tgznhvi...red

sheesh

 
At 23/10/06 12:06 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

Happy Birthday Bob!

When Agnes is finished, I would be more than happy to show you Niagara Falls, a pretty little piece of real estate between Montreal and Victoria. But not until you've both had a chance to recover from all the airports, hotels and emails.

 
At 23/10/06 12:24 PM, Lynn said...

Don't worry, we no longer think the two of you would make a darling couple, mostly because we would read about you on the news somewhere and it wouldn't be all that pretty. But, about Bob and that ten years, he should be so lucky.

There have been charming forecasts of snow (though it's lake effect and not river effect) over the weekend, so on your way home from the airport watch out for the crazies who don't remember how to drive in a dusting of snow.

Take up Cherry Magic Cheryl on her offer to see Niagra Falls, it's very lovely.

 
At 23/10/06 12:28 PM, btuda said...

Happy Birthday, Bob!

Little did I realize that I was toasting you too with the margarita at the Mexican restaurant on Saturday. (We were celebrating sister #2's upcoming birthday.) We drove two hours to celebrate the reopening of the place since it burned down a few months ago. Yes, food seems to be a major theme in my family's life.

I think the family photo went well. The dog was a complete spaz, but he was out of the house so it was expected. The place was decorated for Halloween and he kept wanting to play with the fake rats. Personally, I wanted to take an Adams Family Christmas photo, but that got shot down.

And I do just happen to have a bottle of champagne for when the celebrations starts.

zgixxes: to be found next to the zgevvens.

 
At 23/10/06 12:42 PM, amc said...

I never got any "Bob and Jenny are a couple" vibes, though I could certainly see how collaboration could provide the stuff with which an author could have ball plotting with. That said, a 10-year plus difference in age? No big deal. It's hard to generalize on age differences, anyway--so much depends on the individuals involved. If I were looking for someone, I'd be more interested in the quality and healthiness of the relationship we could have than I would any age differences.

Still dizzy, will see doctor later today. Sigh.

 
At 23/10/06 12:50 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

(((amc))) I'm chronically dizzy. It's no picnic. I hope they figure out what causes yours. In the meanitime, my specialist suggests lots of light and pedicures. Seriously. We have balnce receptors on our calves and feet. Pedicures help with their health.

 
At 23/10/06 1:14 PM, McB said...

Happy Birthday, Bob!

Jenny, never got couple vibes from you two ... more like brother and sister. That said, and having met Bob, I'm pretty sure he is of legal age pretty much anywhere in the known universe which negates an Ew factor on my part. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of any other kind of partnership. It would have a bad effect on the writing partnership, I'm afraid, and, as a Cherrybomb, that must be where my priorities lie. Maybe G-G and Mary got the phone number for that Tongan and can hook you up.

Good luck arcing flamingos. (Oops! There goes another one!)

 
At 23/10/06 1:19 PM, Anonymous said...

Hmmm. Jenny and Bob? Maybe not, but let's not dismiss the age difference thing out of hand, all right?

G&T

third try is fubjnxy. I think you might imagine what I could do with that.

 
At 23/10/06 1:26 PM, btuda said...

And chocolate has antioxidants and releases the fun endorphins.

(Seriously, hope amc and cms are feeling well. For me, a quick *snort* of humor goes a long way no matter what the ailment!)

vfuvwr: very fuzzy ultralights vibrate wrong - really!

Get a grip, blogger.

vptqzdd: Very perturbed, taking quilts, Z's, day dreams.
ipeaisvu: (eeewww)
I ponder each addition I supply (to) verifier usually.

 
At 23/10/06 1:51 PM, K.L. said...

Happy Birthday Bob. Hope Canada treated you well Saturday.

OH, since I was tearing apart my basement in order to start remodeling the kitchen, I didn't read your qestion to me from Bob's last blog until today. Go back to his comments for my answer.

 
At 23/10/06 1:51 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

I'm sucking on some dark chocolate m&ms right now. I feel wonderful : )

 
At 23/10/06 2:04 PM, Lisa said...

Trust me, ten years does not make for an 'ewwww' factor. It all depends on the maturity level of the guy involved. (I always assume the woman is already mature) :)

Of course, if Bob is trying to work out this sex scene you're making him write while in your hotel room, then we'd have something to talk about. Otherwise, I see you two as great collaborators.

Next time you come to the Pacific Northwest, let us know. I'm sure there's plenty of us around who'd love to give you a tour!

 
At 23/10/06 2:11 PM, Deb said...

Happy Birthday Bob! He must be happy, it's candy corn season.

Jenny, the Cristal is on ice for you both.

As far as age difference in relationships of consenting adults, I'm going to borrow from Jane Fonda here, and say "Stay out of my (bed) room.

 
At 23/10/06 2:49 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

MCB has a very funny post on her blog about the state of civilization. I think Jenny's "dude" may have been mentioned, by deed not name. So that's Dee and MCB whose blogs I've pimped in the last couple of days. Jen's says she's offline for a few days while she goes insane, or perhaps she's already there. BCB's blog was great as always. That woman is a writer. Bryan hasn't updated his in a while. Neither has Conscripted Cherry.

What, me procrastinate? Anyone want to tell me how I can link all the CBs to my blog (shameless self-promotion)

I guess I better get back to RL. The dog just chased the cat across my manuscript. I must rescue it before the demon leaps off the page and incinerates one of them. She's having a very bad day. I'm ignoring her.

 
At 23/10/06 2:57 PM, McB said...

And BTW, if you missed it CMS metioned that she too now has a blog. Quite philosophic and a pretty good visual as well. She should try her hand at writing, I'm thinking.

I'll get around to linking folks eventually, but you know it took me a month to get a blog up and running so don't be holding your breath.

 
At 23/10/06 3:43 PM, GatorPerson said...

The discussions about age differences between men/women have been fascinating. I'm thinking some of the differences in attitude among commenters is also age-related and when born. Yeah, Brian, also sex-related. Reversing the sexes in B's story would have got the guy in jail. Or shot. Or dingle dangle-deficient.

I'm thinking OH should do a paper in one of her classes on marriage ages vs time-of-century of marriage. There must be lots of data out there - censuses (censusi, AgT?), etc. We CB's might contribute some anecdotal stories. Did you all know there are more single person families in the US now than non-singles? That would have been a cause for family value consternation in the 1950's. Just food for thought...

ktcggdxo: Oh, pshaw! Keep The Cougars, 'Gators Going Down eXtant Opportunities. Well, whadju expect?

 
At 23/10/06 4:38 PM, Kyrathered said...

Happy Birthday Bob.

You know, I never ever thought of them as a couple. Was I out of the loop of speculations.

Let me clarify the ewwwwwww. If one person is 12 and the other is 22 ... then it is an ewwwwwwwwww. If one person is 22 and the other is 32 it is NOT an ewwwwwwww. It's not the years, it's the chronology. Work with me here! Don't make me have to defend my ewwwww again!

Glad the book is swinging in on it's final vine. I look forward to it happily.

Tweety has discovered rebellion. She, with long monkey arms, got a bread knife off my counter. I said "give that to Mommy" which she took to mean "run away and make Mommy work for it". The time between when she started running with a breadknife and when I caught her and removed said knife was the longest 3 nanoseconds of my life!

 
At 23/10/06 4:40 PM, Bryan said...

GatorPerson,

I think part of the double-standard arises because men are still seen as the initiators in sexual relationships. So a woman who succumbs to the advances of a teenage boy is not viewed as a predator, whereas when an older man has relations with a teenage girl, he is viewed as having seduced her.

The reality in either situation could be completely different. And in truth, I am much more comfortable with the idea of me having been with my physics teacher's sister, than I would be if it were a teenage girl in the flip circumstance. And that's even after having lived through the dynamics myself.

It is a double-standard. But it's one I'm not actively fighting against any more than I want to see women in combat.

Besides, I'm old now, so people sometimes cut me a little slack for my quaint ways.

 
At 23/10/06 4:40 PM, Lori said...

Happy Birthday Bob!


tzbwcvn: To ZaZa, bw could vocalize nervousness.

 
At 23/10/06 4:45 PM, Christina said...

Happy belated b-day, Bob.

I don't want to harp on this, but for me, it's not a maturity issue with a large age gap, it's the experience. I would like my significant other to actually know what I mean when I refer to Billy Joel, the Berlin wall, the Challenger explosion, Dr Who, Green Day, the Smurfs, etc. I know it sounds stupid, but it's what I feel.

And on a completing unrelated topic---my visa troubles have now been alleviated. They are extending it free of charge which is wonderful compared to the alternative where I would have had to fork over 250 GBP.

((hugs)) to all who need them.

And, OH, don't be afraid to come back and play. You've taken a bit of a beating concerning your miscalculated age comments. We've all been there. When I was your age, I was really mean and joked with my mom that when she was younger, she went to school with the dinosaurs. I was joking, people. Weirdly enough, she did find this amusing...

 
At 23/10/06 4:50 PM, AgTigress said...

Gatorperson - you are quite right: perceptions of age-disparity in sexual partners are certainly altered by the age of the observer, but they are also pretty strongly influenced by culture. I have noticed that Americans are in general much more concerned by the respective ages of sexual partners than most Europeans are.

I don't know why this is - unless it is the flipside of something that Jenny mentioned: the occasional blatant sexualisation of girl children, which is much more obvious in American society than it is even in the UK, and certainly far more than in other Old World cultures.

I know the sort of sub-culture that has those ghastly beauty contests for tiny girls is only small, but the very idea seems truly perverse to nearly all non-Americans. It is a real paedophiles' charter, but in a society that is, at the same time, hysterically terrified of paedophilia (and is unable to distinguish, apparently, between actual paedophilia and the inappropriate sexualisation of physically mature, but emotionally immature, adolescents).

As I said before, we have to step aside from our own cultural conditioning to see these things more clearly. Anthropologists and archaeologists do that as a matter of course (or should do): it is part of our training. But it is really helpful for others to try to do it too. It is harder for Americans, because a smaller proportion of you have visited or lived in other countries than Europeans, so it is easier for many of you to regard all aspects of your own culture as universal.

And as I said, some aspects are universal. It is ALWAYS wrong, and always has been wrong, for a mature adult to make sexual advances to a 5-year-old. This is a universal law of nature. Whether it is necessarily wrong for an adult to enter into a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old depends on many, many factors. It is very seldom a good thing, but there are situations where it has been acceptable, and indeed, normal.

 
At 23/10/06 4:51 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

Kyra just summed the whole discussion up nicely on the last blog - Age & Maturity are very different things

OH hasn't retreated in the past, I'm sure she'llbe abck. She loves to lob stuff into the crowd then watch us explode. Kids, gotta love 'em.

 
At 23/10/06 4:54 PM, me said...

Christina: now i am humming the Smurfs theme song.
Thank you.
la la lala lala, la lala lala....

what's that about age and maturity? hehe

 
At 23/10/06 4:54 PM, Bryan said...

Christina,

I love those "When I was a boy..." stories. I usually just keep adding and adding until they are so outlandish nobdy can keep a straight face.

I may have mentioned the one I told when the nephew didn't like potatoes.

"When I was a boy, we didn't even have pototoes. We had to eat dirt. And we liked it. We didn't have soup either. Just water, with dirt in it. And we ate it. And if we put in too much dirt, we ate mud. And we liked it. We had meat though. Meat, dirt, and water. Eat your potatoes."

 
At 23/10/06 5:09 PM, McB said...

Bryan you left out the part about having to walk to school in a blizzard and it was all up hill ... both ways.

 
At 23/10/06 5:16 PM, Christina said...

MCB--you forgot barefoot too. When my grandfather would tell the story to my sister and me, he always made sure to note that the walk in snow uphill both ways was done barefoot.

Although this was a man who also called whipped cream cashlaba. I don't know if it was a Tennessee-ism, an Iowa-ism or just a grandpa-ism. Still amusing all the same.

gymnicy -- I think blogger is telling me to stop eating apple crisp and get off my bum.

 
At 23/10/06 5:20 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

Bryan's story reminds me of Stone Soup.Hmm, wonder what's for dinner?

 
At 23/10/06 5:20 PM, Lou said...

Happy belated birthday, Bob!! My DH's birthday was also Saturday (Oct. 21). Louis - was that your DW's birthday also??

Must have been a good day!!

taxlopoo - tax loop holes -or- tax lopoo

 
At 23/10/06 5:24 PM, bon cheri bomb said...

Well hell, CMS. Here I am all set to complain and whine about how incredibly STUPID some people can be (customers) and find you're over here saying nice things about me. That was so sweet, you made all the bad things go away. Thank you, Sheryl. [I really didn't think anyone was even reading it, and was considering just getting rid of it. Huh.]

But I still dislike Mondays. And stupid customers.

bw

 
At 23/10/06 5:42 PM, bon cheri bomb said...

Is anyone else wondering how you arc a motif? Characters I understand, but flamingos and five million, arcing? Thinking about that is making me a little crazy.

And what could possibly be so wrong in Act Four that they thought about getting rid of most of it?

I have a feeling I'm not going to read Agnes so much as study it. Sigh.

bw

 
At 23/10/06 5:47 PM, Carla said...

It's been ages, I know, but I had to throw in my useless 2 cents. What's 10 years between partners to those who've read "Anyone But You"? Personally a 10 year gap does tend to give me the Ew factor, just because my ex was 2 years younger but 10 years behind in maturity. He had an IQ nearly equal to my pants size. Husband #2 is 6 years older (7, he reminds me, for 5 months of the year) but probably my equal in maturity, except during football season. At the rate I'm going, I'll have to marry a 60 year old next time around just to be impressed.

Carla (who's now going back to her insane job where she's gone from laid off to saved to wishing she'd been laid off to begin with)

(blue) FIXAH - what you call a handyman in Maine

 
At 23/10/06 5:55 PM, Kyrathered said...

Agtigress: the postmodernist approach would maintain that anthropologist cannot ever fully step outside of their culture preconceptions ... they can just try real hard.

But I do agree Americans in general are weird about sex ... I mean a culture where teens are still 'children' but are invited to dress like overtly sexual nymphs is confused. Notice -- the beauty standard for a model is basically the body shape of a pre-adolescent with adult breasts.

When I was 24 my youngest brother called me a 'fossil'. I tell my godchildren stories about the harships of live befoer VCRs and cell-phones. I'm not sure they believe me. Although the 7 year old did ask me ... "What's a VCR?"

The smurfs are singing in my head too.

 
At 23/10/06 6:08 PM, AgTigress said...

Kyra said: Agtigress: the postmodernist approach would maintain that anthropologist cannot ever fully step outside of their culture preconceptions ... they can just try real hard.

* * *

Umm - that's a postmodernist approach? But it was what I was taught as an archaeology undergraduate in 1959!!

Of course one cannot cast off all one's cultural conditioning, and nobody expects to be able to do so: it's a remote and unattainable ideal. The important thing is to try. But many otherwise well-educated people don't even realise that there is such a thing as cultural conditioning, and that is something that does need to be challenged - the casual assumption that one's own culture is a universal norm.

:-D :-D

 
At 23/10/06 6:11 PM, amc said...

Tigress, one of the things I loved about living in Europe was just that--the chance to see outside of my own culture. In Europe, you can drive for a few hours and be in a place where the language and the customs are different; in the States, you can drive for days and it's all the same country. And there aren't very deep layers of history over here, either. Something dating from the 1700's is incredibly old over here, but I was in buildings in Europe that dated from the 1600's or even the 1200's that were in every day use, and nobody thought anything about it.

My doctor thinks I have benign positional vertigo and has referred me to the ENT's. I just want this over with. Hugs back to everyone. CMS, pedicures? Cool!

 
At 23/10/06 6:15 PM, Christina said...

For all those suffering under the Smurf theme song...

Shall I help by mentioning Fraggle Rock.

Now really, which is the lesser of two evils?

 
At 23/10/06 6:22 PM, K.L. said...

I think there is a book out now about mothers not dressing their 6 year old daughters as a skank. They grow up way too fast as it is. And what is with the fixation of adults being hairless? Is this another manifestation of being fixated on looking young? Or having desires for teens? Seems just wrong to me.

Ok, enough rant for now.

 
At 23/10/06 6:30 PM, Diane said...

See, this just goes to show that it's not the age, it's the culture. I don't know the smurfs song (or at least I don't think I do). Unless it's because I'm too old. Please don't say it's that.

Someone gave me a hard time for smiling too much while we were singing an anthem in church on Sunday. It was "For the Beauty of the Earth", the John Rutter version. OK, it's a lovely setting of a hymn with the refrain "Lord of all, to thee we raise this our joyful hymn of praise". It seems to me that smiling is the thing. Also, I hear it helps one keep from going flat. But then I smiled at myself in the mirror to see how scary it was - and let's just say, no worries about being taken for a twenty-something. Possibly frightening only to myself, but oh, well. And I have ANOTHER birthday coming.

What I think is funny is how people (especially men?) fail to update their "search image" for potential partners. I'm not saying that one should eliminate people outside of an approved age bracket, but I do think that, when one is retired, completely white-haired and suffering from osteoporosis, one ought to at least consider women one's own age, as well as the twenty- and thirty-somethings. Most twenty-somethings look too young to me (though occasionally pleasantly decorative), but, as G-G said, some men my own age have a look that I can't help but put in the "dad" category.

I think it's very impressive that Jenny wants even the fake flamingos and $5 million to grow and change. There's no rest for the inanimate - which leaves us animated (more or less) types very much on the hook. Darn it.

lhqnf: liquified honey quantifies nutritional fructose

hjpwnlcm: Help Jenny's prostitots wear nice little child muu-muus.

 
At 23/10/06 7:23 PM, orangehands said...

a friend's dad: i had to walk five miles in the snow uphill, both ways, barefoot, after feeding the cows and chickens (did i mention he lived in the city?) eating dirt for dinner cause we couldn't afford anything else!

my friend: daddy, it doesn't snow there.

*****

GP said "I'm thinking OH should do a paper in one of her classes on marriage ages vs time-of-century of marriage."

oh yeah, give me the work. :) actually, i do like the idea of doing a paper on this subject we have been talking about. hmmm...how to work it into my classes.

BTW: how's DD doing?

christina: ha! can't get rid of a young whipper-snapper that easily! i actually knew all of those things...ok, not what Dr. Who is from, but i recognized the name.

ag said (based off what Jenny said): "the occasional blatant sexualisation of girl children, which is much more obvious in American society"

it's not that occasional. America is a rape-culture, and just glancing at advertisment, language, the legal system, and millions of other factors it is easy to see (along with the inherent racism and heterosexism of the culture). we watch five year olds parade around in more make-up than i wear in a year, see more "sexual appeal" in ads than the product they are selling, have more women in prison for self-defense than actual murder, treat victims of rape as if they are to blame because of what they are wearing/doing, praise women for reaching the same weight Holocaust survivors had, have fathers watching young teen actresses with lust (sending the message to daughters on how to get a man's attention), have barely any protection laws for incest, rape, molestation, and abuse, focus more on what the "victim" (who is really a survivor) did or didn't do than the person perpetrating the crime, have...*looks around* geez, when did i get up here? someone get me a ladder.

but anyways, the sexualization in American culture is not that occasional. i think i may have gotten off subject. well, first time for everything here. :)

*sigh* i have a book to read and then an essay to write. i'll try to be back soon.

oh god, i think i broke blogger. badly. sorry Cbs.

 
At 23/10/06 7:23 PM, Lou said...

amc - *WHAT* is benign about vertigo?? That doctor should have to deal with it!!

I've suffered from vertigo when I've tilted my head to the side in a certain way, and it was always because my neck was out of alignment. Maybe a visit to a really good chiropractor (the kind that takes x-rays first) would be in order!

Tigress - I just read in interview on Running with Quills (author blog) about a woman named Catherine Johns (British, museum curator) who just published a book about horses called Horses, History, Myth, Art. Didn't you mention sometime back that you were working on a book about horses and the history thereof? Are you still doing that? Is it this kind of book?

Interview here:
www.runningwithquills.com

qmuyis
quickly, many use Yex in scenes

 
At 23/10/06 7:29 PM, AgTigress said...

'Prostitot' is an amazingly apt coining, isn't it? The word will come to mind every time one sees pictures of those tiny 'beauty queens' in their spangles and tarty make-up. Honestly, what are their mothers thinking?

The thing is, many little girls are only too keen on participating in that kind of dress-up, wholly innocent of the kind of attention it might attract.

 
At 23/10/06 7:42 PM, Lou said...

BULLETIN for those who are thinking about Tal, she commented on Running with Quills. She sounds just fine.

 
At 23/10/06 8:24 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

WTH? A Buffalo teacher convicted of sex crimes has been sentenced to three years of exile in Canada???? Excuse me? I think that's taking our niceness too far. He's an American living in Canada so as long as he stays over here, he avoids jail time. I am so not impressed. He's 35, his student was 15.

 
At 23/10/06 9:08 PM, Cherry Magic Sheryl said...

My dad says the crime was an inappropriate comment which the paper and FoxNews did not get into. So I'm just going to go over here now and see what all the details are before I continue to fuss.

 
At 23/10/06 9:25 PM, talpianna said...

Just popping in for a minute to wish you all a Happy National Mole Day!

I'll be back as soon as I can work up the nerve to tackle the backlog. I stopped following ANY of my blogs while I had a bad cold with bronchitis and laryngitis and couldn't sit up that long. I think it was a variety of Dutch Elm Disease.

Love to all from The Mole.

ojdpql -- Oh, Jenny dear, please quit laughing.

 
At 23/10/06 9:34 PM, Anonymous said...

Happy, happy birthday, Robert. You're a Libra like me. Great people, huh? *grin* We never procrastinate, never, never, ...

Jenny, great news. It's a wrap! By the end of this week huh? We're waiting patiently for Agnes. We have complete faith in you two ... just get us the damn book already.
rg
rktjtxa
Robert kept telling jenny to x-out
all (sex scenes)

 
At 23/10/06 9:41 PM, wapakwoman said...

CHRISTINA SAID....For all those suffering under the Smurf theme song...

Shall I help by mentioning Fraggle Rock.

Now really, which is the lesser of two evils? "

I sooooo miss the Fraggles! And the smurf song is much worse. At least the Fraggles had words! "Dance your cares away, wory for another day..."

Ok I'll stop now. I am still trying to figure how I can use the word Prostitot in front of my friends. It is a very funny word, that is all too alarmingly true.

 
At 23/10/06 9:52 PM, Mary said...

Wait a minute, CMS, you're sending mixed signals here. If you don't think Bawb and Jhenni are or should be a couple, might it not look bad to their public if they show up together at a noted honeymoon spot like Niagara? Separate trips, surely.

Jenny, I'm glad that /someone/ around here appreciates Harold and Maude. I like the idea of doing what I damn well please when I'm that age. For that matter, I like the idea of doing what I want at any age ;)

Frankly, the only thing I've read so far that provokes the "ewwww" response is (forgive me, Louis) the idea of someone living in Turlock. No doubt there is some kind of therapy out there for this reaction. ("Mary, you /like/ living where it's hot! You /like/ it!" repeated several times.)


AgTigress, I meant to say this a few blog entries back, but I agree with your take on Americans' naivety vs. Europeans' more cynical approach to live. I didn't grasp this concept until I lived in Europe, but Americans are more open or trusting (to quote one unkind Brit more 'fatuous') and in general less cynical. I also agree with whoever responded that the current generation is less trusting than the one before it; I think that's true. But Europeans are much further along this road than we are. Which brings up the question -- is this just caused by moving to a new continent, facing a new frontier? If so, has anyone noticed this tendency amongst Aussies? Kiwis? Argentineans? Or is it just a North American phenomenon?

The mole is back! Okay, Miss Tal, you can give up the pretense of being unwell. With a tan like that, you've clearly been spending your time appreciating the spring weather in Tierra del Fuego.

 
At 23/10/06 9:54 PM, jpoorman94 said...

Hey Gang, I don't know if any of you have Lord & Taylor where you reside but... while I was wandering the shops yesterday I saw a long skinny dog (minature dachshaund?) figurine, like the one in Faking It. It was wearing a santa hat & booties and I instantly thought of Jenny.

I noted the brand name but have (of course) forgotten it already. But its out there if you think it is something she would like to have.

Cheers,
jpoorman

 
At 23/10/06 10:05 PM, McB said...

bon cheri bomb said...
Is anyone else wondering how you arc a motif? Characters I understand, but flamingos and five million, arcing?


I keep picturing flamigos whizzing by overhead like footballs, and a sports announcer doing the critique ... a la Howard Cosell ... "a bit to high on that one, fans, but it had really good distance."

Tal!!!! Come back Tal!!!! Shoot nobody around here bothers to keep up ... you know the rules, just jump in wherever the water is deep enough! Hope you are feeling much better and that we'll be seeing you around more often. Tigress has had to carry the burden all by herself.

Kyra said ... Notice -- the beauty standard for a model is basically the body shape of a pre-adolescent with adult breasts.

I always wondered if anyone else noticed that fashion designers were designing clothes to fit the bodies of 12yo boys.

On prostitots and the sexualization of young girls. A few years ago there was a fuss because men in the stands were looking at the butts of the cheerleaders. Sounds pretty eewww, right? But see the cheerleading uniforms had the school logo written across the seat. So pardon me, but why were they shocked that someone was looking? And what was the teacher in charge thinking? And why did the parents go along with such tackiness?

 
At 23/10/06 10:58 PM, orangehands said...

CMS: report back.

Jason Alexander was on Bill Maur awhile back when that teacher who had sex with her student got out of jail. he did an amazing job explaining that the double standard is a serious business that makes light of what male victims would go through.

i always remember this because, well, it was Jason Alexander, who my mom absolutely hates, but even she said had some good points.

*sigh* showing my youthful ignorance here, but what are Fraggles? yes, you may pity how ignorant the youth is today.

 
At 23/10/06 11:31 PM, Cary said...

OH, I nearly drove down to CA to bean you after your comments on the last few posts. Over 30=old? And dissing George Clooney? How could you???

But as you reminded us, you are still young and ignorant... ;-)

And WTF? I leave you all alone to play for a few days while I get to know my new doggy, and I have to catch up with 200 comments? Eeek!

BTW - Naming him Fred might get me accused of false advertising. Fred CB is far from being a couch potato. When we go for our walks, I'm not sure who's wearing who out...

Off to find a website that talks about how to train your "mouthy" dog....

 
At 23/10/06 11:43 PM, Cary said...

Thank you, Humane Society!

Fumfky - What you doggy may smell like after a day tromping through the leaves!

 
At 23/10/06 11:53 PM, Nanaimo G said...

Hey good to see you backTalI thought of you the other day at an Antiques and collectables show they had MOLE TRAPS I did a double take, no one bought them I hasten to add.
Happy Belated Birthday Bob
Being somewhere well over 30 I remember my friends and I playing with dolls when I was 10 or 11 [before barbies}. Wearing ankle sox at age 15 to my job as an office girl. When we were 14 my best friend's mother died, and she had to look after her father and young brother, do cooking, laundry etc.
When I came to Canada I was amazed at the childishness of the 16/19 yr olds [not called teenagers then] and the lack of responsibility, I know now that many rural children were not so.
I wonder if the fact that the parents are trying to stay young which is so important in this society tends to make them make their children look older while not teaching them how to be responsabill[?sp} therefore always childish?
Oh boy its hard to get of the soap box

 
At 24/10/06 12:13 AM, Anonymous said...

I'm back! Just got out of my bubble bath and while floating around began thinking about arcs and flamingos.

So maybe they can arc by learning how to not poop on the decking around the pool. Heh. They can go through training, learning to do their business on the grass in the corner of the yard so that it can be easily hosed into the flower beds and be added fertilizer. Heh.

Hey, it's growth. Training flamingos is not easy. Heh heh.

Now, I bring this to your attention only because we have major problems in the fall in the desert due to tons of coots coming to our lake. The lake has concrete paths surrounding it and we all walk our dogs around the lake. The coots walk across the paths from the water to snack on whatever they can find in the grass, then they leave their droppings to go take another swim.

The HOA Board of directors, has tried everything and it costs a fortune to hire people to hose down the paths and then the area only stays clean for an hour or two anyway. This year, they decided to take action. We have many elderly people who like to walk and they're afraid someone will slip and get hurt.

So, guess what the Board got? A half a dozen giant plastic Moot heads that have golden eyes that reflect the sun and the head sits a little above the water line and just floats around. Six Moots, floating on my lake ... so far so good ... coots are kept at bay. Who knows, if this doesn't work, maybe next year we'll get flamingos.
rg
tfxlz
that fiery x-tra little zing

 
At 24/10/06 12:20 AM, Mary said...

rg,

Sorry you're having all those problems with coots. And here I thought old Tom was an only child :(


bkqbj - burger king's quarter-barbecued jaberwockies


(see, BCB, I do too post)

 
At 24/10/06 12:30 AM, glamour-geek said...

BCB sez: Characters I understand, but flamingos and five million, arcing?

Darlin'! Haven't you ever heard of funds maturing? :)

Late catching up. I spent the day climbing outdoors on real rock for the first time in about 3 years, despite the fact that my ribs are, yet again, a little out of whack. They'll recover. Gorgeous, unseasonably warm days in which to climb outdoors with fun friends do not come around that often.

Just, because of AgTigress's comments, wanted to point out that our legal age of majority is quite arbitrary. Why 18? Why not 17? Or 20? 32? 15?

Also, that Canadian law about 14 being legal if the other party is under 18 is a little odd. I mean, imagine a 15 and 16 year old meet and start dating. Maybe a year later they actually have sex (at 16 and 17, respectively). It's legally ok. Then the older one turns 18 and it's not ok for a year, even though they've been together for 2 years and have already had sex together for year?

And have to note that while I have no statistical evidence, my experience is that *white* America is quite rigid about age differences. I've found black Americans tend to me much more relaxed about age discrepancies, but as I said, that's just my observation/acquaintance. I have insufficient information about Native Americans, Asian Americans, Latinos, etc. which also have lots of variety with those larger categorizations.

I didn't climb much, but I'm totally worn out. Jeez.

 
At 24/10/06 12:33 AM, Mary said...

So, GiGi, if you prefer climbing with friends... does that make you a social climber?

vjnwosx - what vjnwo prefers to do on his day off

 
At 24/10/06 1:59 AM, Scope Dope Cherrybomb said...

Happy Birthday Bob

I have only three words about the prostotots--Jon Bonet Ramsey.

talpianna you've come back to us. Hallelujah! You don't have to read everything to keep up. Just jump in anywhere we won't care. We have missed you.

blue eddkeouw

Even darling daughters keep everyone out until writing's (done).

green bkjjx

Bob keeps junking Jenny's Xpressions.

 
At 24/10/06 3:48 AM, orangehands said...

mary said "So, GiGi, if you prefer climbing with friends... does that make you a social climber?"

ROTFLMAO. *wipes tears from eyes* i missed you mary.

BTW: hey tal and rg and SDCB!

g-g: the way i've understood that is that it's only if charges are pressed against you. cops don't go looking for it. so yes, a parent could press charges. but that also seems like something really hard to prove- unless there's pictures it could be sex with someone else, not really any way too know who.

 
At 24/10/06 6:13 AM, Christina said...

OH--If you want to know who the Fraggles are, check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock

 
At 24/10/06 6:40 AM, talpianna said...

HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY BOB!!!!

I don't see why Jenny and Bob can't be a couple. Burke and Hare* were a couple. Bonnie and Clyde were a couple...


*(Look it up? Do I have to do all the intellectual heavy lifting around here? What did you do while I was missing--sit around and drool?)

Yes, people--THE MOLE IS BACK!

qkrcc -- Quick! Kiss Robert's cute chin!

 
At 24/10/06 7:40 AM, AgTigress said...

Mary: apropos your comments about American and European differences in cynicism. I think it does have to do with some degree of cultural isolation, and also, I'm afraid, cultural hubris. Early Americans started off with a fairly clean slate, with a clear and intelligent idea of a fair and equitable constitution, with direct knowledge of some of the abuses that went with social and religious intolerances in their countries of origin. The way that the USA was set up does, indeed, give you all something to be proud of, very different from a mishmash of inherited situations and attitudes going back countless generations.

But the lack of firsthand knowledge of other countries in a majority of the population helps to feed the false assumption that I have already mentioned, namely the idea that one's own culture is a universal ideal to which all the world should aspire.

The USA is still, in terms of the sweep of world history, in the actively imperialist phase that Europe passed through between the early 18th and early 20th centuries. In the 19th century, Britain also believed that its culture was not only the Best Ever (it wasn't), but that it should be exported to, and even firmly imposed upon, the rest of the world, for their own good. This is not wise, and probably never was, but France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands all did that kind of thing at that period, trying to 'improve' the world in our own Christian, early industrial-economy image. It is a natural phase through which powerful countries go, and which, a few generations later, they heartily regret. Like adolescence, I suppose.

Cynicism is thus a natural consequence of millennia of history, much of it painful. Understanding, if not positive acceptance, of other cultural standards is actually the only possible future for humanity, if we can bring ourselves to that realisation. Europe is further along the road than the USA because of our far greater and longer exposure to cultural variety and to the successes and inevitable subsequent reverses of war and conquest, but, heaven help us, we still have a long, long way to go, too.

:-(

 
At 24/10/06 8:52 AM, Kyrathered said...

agtigress: Hate to break it to you but 'modernist' theory was 1930s-40s and then the postmodernist school started with a bang in the 1950s. WTF are they going to call the current theoretical perspectives? :0)

Also, if the USA is in an adolescent phase ... is it too young to have sex?

Okay, on the youth/prostitot thing. I did a theoretical paper in 2000 that followed the feminist movement and correlated it with fashion 'ideals'. Whenever women were being 'good girls' -- you know, shuting up and making babies, we were allowed some weight and looked like women not girls. The 1900-1910s, 1930s, 1950s ... all times of feminist 'rest' and curvy gals. The 1980s, home of the backlash, saw models that were 'fat' compared to the eras directly before and after them. Times of female empowerment saw the 'boyish' look. Think of the flatchested flappers of the 1920s, the waif of the 1960s, the toothpicks of the 1970s and the 'heroine chic' like Kate Moss of the 1990s. When women fight back we are coerced by culture to assume a infantile and nearly impossible body shape.

When does a female human have poreless-seeming skin, no noticable secondary hair on the arms or legs, tends to be very thin 'coltish' legs and arms, and has no hips? When a female is pre-pubescent. So the fashion ideal is an 8 year old girl who is overtly sexual and has a womans breasts. So she is as powerless as a child but as sexually available as an adult. Creepy no?

For a while they sold g-strings at Baby Gap. Mother of Bob, what are parents thinking!?!

So the anti-coot moot works huh? Good to know.

Ta ta for now ya'll. Let me know what you think of my theory that fashion is a response to feminism.

Do not get me started on high heels.

 
At 24/10/06 9:00 AM, me said...

Christina said: For all those suffering under the Smurf theme song... Shall I help by mentioning Fraggle Rock.

AAAARGH!
Down in Fraggle Rock!

OH, they're making a movie of it soon, so you shall be in the dark no longer.

cbevfo Cherry Bombs envision virtual friends overseas

 
At 24/10/06 9:07 AM, me said...

Kyra...g-strings for babies? At the risk of offending Jenny, now that is ew. Really, what is the purpose of that? Then again, I never understood the concept of piercing the ears of a 2-month-old (so they can pull them out and swallow them), either, so what do I know.

Besides, I thought those g-strings were Bryan's.

 
At 24/10/06 9:25 AM, Kyrathered said...

well, to be fair the g-strings were for the 5 year old set. I mean, that's just dandy isn't it? What kind of a world do we live in if a five year old cannot learn that her ass is eye-candy?

Bryan prefers the term "thong". Much more macho.

 
At 24/10/06 9:26 AM, McB said...

The return of the Old Coot's kin, artificial Moots, maturing funds, social climbers and arcing flamingos.

And to think there are people out there who don't start their day with CherryBombs. Bless their hearts.

 
At 24/10/06 9:35 AM, McB said...

In case anyone was wondering ...
American Coot.

 
At 24/10/06 9:38 AM, AgTigress said...

Kyra - I have never taken much notice of the various isms, in art, architecture, archaeology, history, whatever; anyway, people who can't think up better designations than 'modernist' and 'post-modernist' really are not trying very hard, nor looking ahead.

But good grief, if the 1950s were 'post-modernist', there should have been AT LEAST two -isms since then (one per generation) - and in my field of archaeology, they certainly have been! Don't know what they called them, though. Presumably post-post-modernism and post-post-post-modernism. So I was surprised to hear that a basic principle that I learned nearly 50 years ago could still be post-anything, except post-War. Modern European archaeology had barely had time to be modernist, let alone post, by the 1950s. Rather like clothing fashions, I just let these things flow past and hang on to the principles that seem to me to get results in terms of advancement of knowledge.

You are right about the female body-shape ideals. The whole thing is disheartening, but the worst thing is the way that in some respects feminism has to re-invent itself in every generation, rather than simply being able to build on the foundations of the past.

 
At 24/10/06 10:04 AM, Kyrathered said...

Believe it or not there were professors at the university I attanded grad school who were STILL resistant to postmodernism. Go forbid there ever be a paradigm change :0) Cultural Anth has so many special branches that there are new 'isms' all over the place. I only pay attention to theoretical perspectives I feel are valid in my areas. Otherwise, I would go mad. Correct me if I'm wrong but archeology is part of the history feild on your side of the pnd, right? Over here it's in the anthro department so we may be in two radically diseperate theoretical field perspectives. Viva la intellagentsia :0)

You know what gets my goat as a feminist? Women who have made careers out of anti-feminist diatribes about the evils of women having careers. It's like gay politcal supporters of Bush. WTF? He refused to sign a hate crimes bill because it protected gays. Now, I am not slamming those who politics lean right, its just I don't see why you should vote for a man who thinks you are subhuman. It makes no sense. If you are a woman who thinks a woman's place is only in the home ... practice what you preach and go home. Your husband can attack feminists for you. Sheesh.

Now I will scurry off my soapbox and go feed my Tweety Bird. As a stay at home feminist mom, I take my job seriously :0)

 
At 24/10/06 10:18 AM, Bryan said...

Kyra,

I agree with your observations about fashion with regard to time period and political activism, however, I disagree wholeheartedly with "where the thinking comes from". The waif look of the sixties was a direct offspring of the feminist movement and internal to the movement itself. It was a rebellion against that curvy female look. Marilyn Monroe was the enemy. When women fight back, they take on the look that they think will get them ahead and abandon that which is female. So you either end up with a waif or an androgynous individual who could be either male or female. Feminist politics is no more good for the health of an average woman than the most misogynists.

Fashion is an economic endeavor, not a political one. Fashion Design must play to the audience. In one of the Fashion Weeks earlier this year (unfortunately I’ve forgotten the city), there was a model who could have been mistaken for a starving refugee. Her ribs were very pronounced on her back, and she looked like she barely had enough muscle tone to stand. There was such an uproar about it that Madrid Fashion Week actually instituted a minimum Body Mass Index that the models had to pass in order to participate. (I can see it now… discrimination lawsuits because skinny people are losing their jobs). In L.A. Fashion Week last week, the models looked much healthier (though with unbelievably long legs, blonde hair, and fake boobs) and the biggest controversy there was the lack of gift bags for the attendees. Most local modeling agencies are looking for the “average mom” look for their clients.

My mother told me that in her school years, she and her friends would roll up the waistband of their uniform skirts and measure each other with a ruler to make sure that the bottom of the skirt was just barely low enough to conform with the dress code. And this was after they left the house.

Who is responsible for the pre-pubescent bare midriff? Brittney Spears, her PR campaign, or the parents of the little girl who allow her to dress like she’s giving a concert on a daily basis? Have you seen Brittney when she’s dressed for comfort? Is it a male chauvinistic society that wants women to be nothing more than slutty little girls? Could it be that the reason we have slutty little girls now is because the parents today are rebelling against their own strict background and allowing the children to do whatever they please.

Or perhaps the dynamics of it all are more complicated than one man can say in a reasonable time from a soapbox of this kind.

And I haven’t even started on OH’s “America is a rape culture” meme. Don’t worry. I won’t. I’m done with the political blogs and this isn’t the place for it anyway. But I get very defensive when “women’s issues” become the fault of “male society” when in fact much of it is done to women by other women. Especially since it’s supposedly all about equality, yet the statutory rape of a teenage boy by a teacher is laughed at, father’s rights are practically non-existent, and Bob forbid we open a door AND offer to go dutch on the same date.

And isn’t assault and murder just as bad when it’s committed against “straight” people? Do we need a law that says if you kill a guy, that’s bad, but if you kill a gay guy, that’s really bad?

I’m going to step away for a while because my blood pressure is rising.

 
At 24/10/06 10:32 AM, AgTigress said...

Kyra said: "Correct me if I'm wrong but archeology is part of the history feild on your side of the pnd, right? Over here it's in the anthro department so we may be in two radically diseperate theoretical field perspectives".

You are right up to a point, but it is not simple! European archaeology obviously covers everthing from the early Palaeolithic to post-Industrial Revolution, and consequently borrows, hi-jacks, uses and misuses techniques and theories from a wide range of disciplines. Prehistorians do borrow from anthropology, and even Classical archaeologists will play with anthropological theory if they have a mind to it.

Text-aided (or, as those of us who deal with it sometimes think of it, text-hindered) archaeology naturally has to take account of historical approaches. Remember that even in the USA, it is really only those who work on Native American material that are solely part of the anthropological continuum: your Old World archaeologists - Ancient Near East, Graeco-Roman, Byzantine, etc., etc., have the same sort of range as we do, except that more of them, proportionately, are trained as art-historians or straight Classicists. I was trained as a prehistorian (European) and Roman-to-early-Medieval archaeologist.

Christina - you should add your comments on this!

:-)

 
At 24/10/06 10:44 AM, hollygee said...

Ooooooooo - you could take the train across Canada to Montreal and come back through Vermont and do the upper New England tour. Probably not worth the wear and tear on your fried selves, but I can dream.

 
At 24/10/06 10:44 AM, me said...

Bryan: Deep breaths. In and out. There, feel better?

And just so you know, I would never rip your head off for opening a door or going dutch on our date. ;-)

 
At 24/10/06 10:55 AM, AgTigress said...

Temporary change of subject:

about two blogs ago, someone (Gatorperson, maybe?) asked me about the conservation rules on handling 17th- / 18th-century books and manuscripts. The answer, unhelpfully, is, ‘it depends’. Many 18th-century books and papers are in very good, robust condition, and are neither especially rare nor valuable. I would not think of putting on gloves to handle my own old books (the earliest one I have was printed in 1634, but I have a fair number of 18th-C. volumes). However, I make sure my hands are freshly and thoroughly washed and dried. I suspect that in the case of the TV programme where you saw bare hands being used, that was the case - clean, dry hands, so minimum danger of skin oils and acids, and documents that were not of the highest value or rarity.

When handling, say, a Medieval illuminated manuscript, I certainly expect to wear gloves, but then one must be careful in a slightly different way. Proper surgical gloves are best, because you can feel through them, and can therefore be as gentle and sensitive almost as with bare fingertips, but they are extremely uncomfortable to wear for very long (I suppose surgeons get used to it). Cotton gloves are more comfortable, but they greatly increase the chances of physical damage like abrasion or even bending and creasing of paper - tactile sensation is greatly undermined.

One is supposed to wear gloves to handle ancient metalwork, too, and much of the time, one does, but again, those of us who handle such objects on a regular basis do vary our approach. It is sometimes more dangerous to a battered and corroded ancient bronze to use cotton gloves than to use clean, bare hands, because fabric can catch on irregularities and actually cause physical damage. There is no ideal solution as yet. Archaeological conservators would prefer it if nobody ever handled antiquities, or exposed them to any light, or breathed near them, or even looked askance at them...

 
At 24/10/06 10:56 AM, AgTigress said...

PS - I make sure my hands are clean and dry before handling ANY book, come to that!

 
At 24/10/06 11:22 AM, Anonymous said...

Interesting answer Agtigress. I wondered what you'd say *grin*
because in Temple when you read from the Torah, you use a pointer (everything is of course in Hebrew and it's easy to lose your place) and you must never touch the pages with your hands. I'd often wondered how much of that was because of the sacred book, the ability to lose your place, or oils etc. on hands.

So, Bryan is upset and rightly so. It's a well known fact that women dress for other women, not for the male. As a rule the poor guy knows nothing of fashion. The woman flaunts her fine feathers to attract the male and to piss off the other women. Heh. Sorry, but that's my version and I'm sticking to it. And about flaunting their daughters, don't get me started ...

TAL! YOU"RE BACK!!!! HELLLLLOOOOO!
And right when I'm about to disappear again and go into hibernation. Sigh. I just started my new book. Oooooh, it's such fun. But maybe I'll stick around until the end of this blog, December 31st, right? By then I should be writing in my cave and people will forget who I am, if I ever existed.

Oh, and yay me! I decided not to run for President again for my local RWA chapter. I'm reclaiming my life. And I quit my critique group. I'd been stressed to the max this year always giving back and then some, but never asking for anything for me. I'm getting stronger and realise I have nothing to prove, so I'm just letting things be and getting off the roller coaster. My new motto is, "do less, achieve more."
rg
rg

 
At 24/10/06 11:34 AM, Christina said...

I am answering Agtigress's call for additional comments...

Re: archaeology in the states. I study classical archaeology so more often than not classical arch programs are based in classics or even art history departments, like Agtigress has mentioned. Having said that, as an undergrad I studied archaeology which was based in the anthro department. For other areas of archaeology, I'm not able to give much info. I know actual archaeology departments in the US are few and far between (BU comes to mind as a rare example) and non-classical arch programs I think would likely be based in anthro departments. It feels like UK institutions tend to have actual arch departments instead of basing the program in another department (history, anthro, classics), like the one I am in now although technically I am affilitated with both the archaeology and classics departments, but adminstratively I am dealt with thru the arch dept.

Re: handling old things (no, not like that! get your minds out the gutter, people!). I actually had the opportunity (or the misfortune, depending on how you look at it) to identify and catalogue almost 4,000 ancient coins, mostly bronze. I tended to wear gloves most of the time, but I know many numismatists who just use their hands as when wearing gloves, one is more apt to drop the coins. I now go between being barehanded and gloved, but, like Agtigress, I always make sure my hands are clean and dry before I even think of touching an ancient artefact. Unless I have just dug it out of the grounds, because at that point both the object and I are filthy dirty and it doesn't much matter until the conservator gets a whack at it.

 
At 24/10/06 11:44 AM, McB said...

Bryan - yeah, deep breath. Anytime you want to go dutch around here, that's fine. We won't lamb blast you.

But I know where you are coming from. One group always wants to blame another group for all its problems.

My own thinking is that if you look like a duck, walk like a duck and quack like a duck, don't get angry because people treat you like a duck. What did you really expect?

Ideals are well and good, not evil in themselves; but if they don't consider human nature they won't last.

vqpcue: Villainous quohogs pan Crusie's ubiquitous emails

 
At 24/10/06 12:10 PM, Cary said...

Hey Bryan, I think we need to invest in ladders more than shovels lately. (Sure makes it easier to climb off our soap box.)

I think your point about the gay rights bill was once the subject of a West Wing episode. Although, if I remember correctly, Sorkin drifted off to also make a point about the impossibility of legislating someone's thoughts.

And as for dressing children, I have that problem with my sister and my niece. During one of her summer visits, the niece wore Daisy Duke cut-offs that had the waist band (intentionally) removed. Bad enough in itself on a 12-year-old, but when you add in the fact that the shorts were slightly too loose and she's not great about paying attention to her clothes....

I think a lot of my sister's and my own issues with clothing have to do with rebellion against a strict parent. (My sister challenges by letting her daughter wear everything she couldn't, and I play it too safe.)

But I think Kyrathered's point about the decades is a VERY interesting one. Bryan, aren't you sort of making the same point? Females in those empowerment decades may have emulated the male body shape as a way of "modeling" the powerful image of the time.

 
At 24/10/06 12:11 PM, glamour-geek said...

Mary sez: So, GiGi, if you prefer climbing with friends... does that make you a social climber?

I've been using that line myself for years. Mostly when my climbing partners are talking and catching up and there is not enough climbing going on. :)

I should comment on the fashion/body image/feminism thread here because it was my specialty in grad school. I's like to point out that the vast majority of fashion comes from small groups of individuals and then is picked up on by designers, performers, etc. and presented to the larger society as a whole through the media. Fashion designers and the like are really not all that original and many of them rely on their young staff people to wear whatever hip, youthful sub-culture, counter-culture trends are going on, observe them, and design following that.

Examples: Madonna's fingerless lace gloves, leggings and skirts in the 80s taken from club culture in NYC in the early 80s, the "Vogue" look and dance Madonna adapted from the gay clubs in NYC in the 80s and 90s, "grunge" which was really just what college students were wearing on the west coast (Berkeley, Seattle, Portland, etc.) at the time--I remember wondering when exactly campus comfort clothes had suddenly become a fashion trend--then popularized by the music industry because of the thriving music scene in Seattle, and, to change genres, disco becoming mainstream when is started in black dance clubs in the early 70s, then spread to gay clubs in the mid 70s, then became a musical trend in the late 70s and early 80s, etc. etc.

Now you're seeing skinny jeans and leggings on young folks, a la the 80s. Well, the young gals in the dance community in San Francisco have been wearing leggings and skinny jeans and tunic tops over them for at least a year now. Really this stuff comes from youth culture and bubbles up, because it's the teens and early 20-somethings who have the freedom to wear what's creative and fun and they like and can make up by cutting, sewing, altering and embellishing for themselves instead of the boring "office-appropriate" that people out of college/high school and with jobs are confined to.

I love clothes and fashion history! Can you tell?

And kyra, btw, high heels were invented by men for men. Women adopted them later on. King Louis was very much enamoured of his own calves and thought that heels showed them off to good effect, so he wore them with tights and pantaloons that came down just below the knee so everyone could see him rockin' his bad self and his hot looking calves. :)

 
At 24/10/06 12:12 PM, Kyrathered said...

Bryan darling ... nowhere did I blame 'male society'. It's our culture that influences us and both genders equal culture. Women are the arbiters of fashion and in a sense 'we' are doing it to ourselves ... but it also responds to what is considered desirable during a time period. For a look at how sociopolitico themes are impressed on the male body I suggest reading Susan Bordo.

Funny, when I would teach class on racial disenfranchisment I was never accused of being anti-white, but feminist topics almost invaribly make men feel as though we are blaming them, personally. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Feminists are aware of, and critique, female disempowerment, but that does not mean we are after male dingle dangels to use as earrings or anything wretched like that. And dating is an interperosnal relationship between two people, not a political statement.

Hate crimes are different. If a person is murdered for the 'typical' reasons -- money, 'love', serial killer -- it is horrible. But in hate crimes a person is attacked because they are Jewish, or black, or gay, or whatever. It's not a 'worse' murder in that all human life is equal, but it is a unique set of circumstances. And gays are frequent targets of hate crimes.

Are we friends? I wasn't trying to pick on you/men. I am sorry if you felt attacked.

Agtigress: thanks for clearing up my questions on where archeology fits vis-a-vis fields. As a cultural person, my background in arch is schetchy at best.

Final thought, I blame parents for dressing their little girls up as tiny-tramps. Parenting is hard and requires you give a child what it NEEDS, not give in to what it WANTS. I expect her to rebel, especially as a teen, but I will not collude with her dressing up as a prostitot.

Really final thought. If my opinions ever offend anyone I apologize in advance. Let me know and I will customize said apology. It won't necessarily mean a change in opinion, but I definately do not want to hurt or offend anyone.

 
At 24/10/06 12:26 PM, GatorPerson said...

AgTigress and Christina,
Thanks for the info on gloves vs bare hands. I'll stop worrying about the insidious destruction of those documents.

To think this male/female/dress thingy started with Mom's casual comment about dinner, a Blackberry, a friend, and a waitress! My opinion on who dresses for whom (and you all know I'm the ultimate authority, since Good Will doesn't even want my cast offs), it all depends. I remember getting gussied up and made up decades ago in dorm rooms. Many residents would congregate in the room to offer advice on just what would please my date, not please them. Just ask yourselves, next time you're prettying up, who for? I'll bet it's for whomever you'll be with, not for those ubiquitous males or females out there.

Now, we could have a discussion on whom garter belts are for. I think the devil designed those things. For the life of me I can't figure how those things are sexy - black silky legs; pasty cellulite thighs; elastic that can shorten to make strips of dress hike up when sitting down. Yep, the devil.

gfddkvma: Nope, can't do that one. OH might be looking.

 
At 24/10/06 12:41 PM, btuda said...

Good grief. I got so riled up reading the posts that I just blasted out three pages on injustices in the world and crap I just don't get. It was MUCH too long to post here and I'm trying not to vent so much on my own blog, so who knows where it'll end up.

Argh. Maybe I'll just pick and choose things to try and become a better human being. Not a better woman, sister, white person, overweight person, person whose husband has a whacked out ex, recovering catholic, aspiring writer, couch potato, dog person or whatever. Just a better person.

And now for something completely different ...

GG: *snort* G-belts. While avoiding any mention of personal experience, I've always thought the current over-elasticized version was a practical joke poised to go horribly awry. Amazing how something that is supposed to fasten to your leg can leave a welt on your forehead.