Warning: Some Violence and Much Strong Language.SHE WROTE: Oh, Canada
We're in British Columbia at the Surrey Writer's Conference and we're both so tired we probably look like we're staring into the abyss, but it's a great conference and the people are terrific, so we're having fun anyway.
Bob got here a day before I did and Dan, the nice guy who picked me up at the airport, said, "So, Bob says you're making him write a sex scene." (I wasn't MAKING him write a sex scene, I just said, "If you want to write a sex scene, here's a place for one that's also the right place to show Shane's emotional arc, but if you don't want to, you don't have to.") Then I got to the hotel and Lisa, who runs the whole conference and does it beautifully, said, "I hear you're making Bob write a sex scene." I said, "I'm not MAKING him write a sex scene . . ." Then I checked in at the desk and the desk clerk said, "So you're making Mr. Mayer write a sex scene." I mean, he must have whined to EVERYBODY about it.
But then I didn't care because Don and Carol McQuinn are here, and Andy Cohen, and Susan and Jay Wiggs, and Jay just won a BMW convertible with a hole in one at a golf tournament and took me all over Surrey in it Thursday night with the top down, so I was pretty damn happy about that, and then we all had dinner and laughed all night and who cares if I had to fly clear across the country and then have a lot of strangers yell at me for making my partner write a sex scene if I could have a good time in fine company? In particularly fine form was Andy Cohen who showed his usual grasp of the essentials by having a program on his blackberry for finding the legal age of consent for any country in the world, which he used after he spotted a very cute blonde in the restaurant (Andy also happens to be the funniest guy in the world so the fact that he said something that made water come out my nose at dinner tonight is his fault, not mine; also I chalk the whole blackberry thing up to the fact that he lives and works in LA). So after we peeled Andy off the blonde (who was around twenty-one and hot; Andy has good taste) and came home from dinner, I read Bob's sex scene and sent it back to him with a few suggestions for a rewrite and today I've been hearing from all kinds of people that he mentioned THAT in his classes . . .
Oh, and we're rewriting all of Act Four because it wasn't working but then this morning while we were talking about it, Bob said, "You know what the problem is? It's . . ." and laid it all out and he was right--I've been saying, "You're right" an alarming number of times this past couple of weeks, but he has been--and all of a sudden we both looked at Act Four and knew exactly how to fix it. Because he's a genius.
Except at sex scenes, although I'm sure he'll nail it in the rewrite. So to speak.
So to recap: Surrey Writer's Conference is fantastic, Jay Wiggs has the coolest car, Andy Cohen is the funniest guy ever, and Bob Mayer is a God Among Men.
And the age of consent in Canada is 14.
51 Comments:
LOL Jenny! I'm glad to hear you're having a good time. Even better to hear you're making Bob write a sex scene. Is this anything like the Althea scene that has no sex? Just asking.
YAY me! I'm on here early! Maybe I can get a post in edgewise :0)
THE AGE OF CONSENT IN CANADA IS 14???? Good grief! They're BABIES at 14! I *started* dating at 14!
Hm, can I put my years of dating experience on my resume? I've done that longer than pretty much anything else except breathing...
For those who are in the States and get the Discovery Channel, I have been LOVING the new series Discovery Atlas. Sunday nights, 2 hours long, don't know when for your respective time zones. Tomorrow's is about Australia. This message has been brought to you by a completely travel-obsessed CB...
I am looking forward to Bob's sex scene ... truth be told I thought his was a little sparse in DLD but only because I am used to Jenny's sizzle. The devil is in the details Bob ;)
So you only have to be 14 to consent to sleeping with adult men in Canada. Pardon moi, but GROSS. My Goddaughter is almost 14 and if anybody older than 15 looked at her cross-eyed I'll need to borrow a lot of shovels.
I've missed you guys, but I just couldn't jump in at post 85.
Now I'm off because Sweet Babou and Tweety are awaiting me in the land of nod.
So... to recap: As we have suspected all along, Bob is indeed not only a GAM but also a genius; Jenny has flown across one country and inexplicably landed in another, laughing in a convertible; Act Four now works because J&B both realize it was all wrong; Bob is going to nail it (so to speak) in a sex scene, but only because Jenny made him do it; but it's all good because Bob got there a day early to do the charming, albeit whining, PR bit.
Okaaay.
Jenny, I want some of whatever your doctor prescribed for you. It seems to be working. Believe me, I am well past the age of consent in whatever country Andy cares to look up on his portable, non-perishable fruit.
Nothing but-- well, "good times" doesn't quite seem to cover it, does it?
I've heard rumours that some of the best ideas come out of moments like this. Carry on.
bw
I've always wanted to go to the Surrey conference, now I'm really jealous. Glad you guys are having such a good time and that Bob is displaying his genius side, 'cause whining is never pretty. /;+) And who is Andy Cohen? I tried Googling, but there are musicians, emcees, sthletes etc. None of those sound like Surrey material.
Happy your drugs have been working and the convertible ride was so much fun.
bwrgxq (red)
Bob wrote right good xerigraphic quartos.
Technically, it is 14: http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/dept/clp/faq.html
Someone under the age of 18 is jail bait for those over 18, though. So 14's the age of consent as long as the relationship is with someone under the age of 18.
Jenny, Jenny...I do love your blogs. Where else can you get a ride thru a "foreign" country. Get Bob to write YEX and decide he is a GAM after all, along with deciding he is a writing genius.
And the commenting ladies , along with Bryan are always delightful to read.
sulky...green
nuff said.
14? Eeeewww! I thought only pygmy age of consent was that low?
Eeeewwwwww!
rmlxcq - really mate, look xeyed at Claire? Quick death!!!
DownUnderGal said...
14? Eeeewww!
You took the words right out of my mouth! lol
CBC, loved the recap, :D
Jenny: I'm so excited about next years Aussie romance conference and actually getting to meet you!... and it's still a year away... *sigh*
On the very good chance I get there... Do you have a favourite chocky? or will any do?... TimTams? Snickers? Twix? .... Cherry Ripe?? lol
The minimum age for marriage in NH is 13 for females and 14 for males with parental consent and a waiver.
/jodel
Jodel wrote: The minimum age for marriage in NH is 13 for females and 14 for males with parental consent and a waiver.
I am now no longer as proud of my home state as I used to be.
ewww
Hi Jenny. Sounds like you are feeling better. Glad to hear it.
CBC (appropriate with The Cherry and The GAM in Canada) it all sounds a bit like road trip, actually. I guess we come by it honestly.
So the age of consent is only 14 if you are with someone under the age of 18? Got it.
Crackberries ... Not just in LA. They live by them in DC too. Not moi, mind you. Not only do I not have one, I seldom think to turn on my cell phone. People might call and then I'd have to yell at them for bothering me.
On the flooring front, because I know you've all been waiting with baited breath (yeah, that bait's old now, btw; try something else) ...
Went up to Home Depot this morning and had a great conversation with this woman, Sandy, who clearly knows her stuff. Am feeling much more confident now as she was able to answer a lot of questions. And also while its going to cost an arm and a leg, the very rough, ball-park estimate she gave us was not as frightening as I thought it would be. So now we get cracking and figure out what we want and give Sandy a call back. Stay tuned.
"Chooks and ducks and geese better scurry
when I drive the car round in Surrey
when I drive the car round in Surrey
with those fringe benefits on top."
What?
rg
Ivnmavr
I van more and van red
Zaza asked:
And who is Andy Cohen? I tried Googling, but there are musicians, emcees, sthletes etc.
I looked him up. He's a producer for T.V and film. Has a production company and I believe is also a screenwriter. My guess is his workshops were on that subject.
rg
vyobd Vay OH bad?
As a Canadian, I can't tell you how thrilled I am that the bigges thing Jenny is taking away from our country is the fact that the age of consent is 14. Jeesh.
And when do teenagers ever care about the age of consent LOL?
I live in Canada and at first that number (14) made me think, I have 8 years until we hit hell with our daughter. And then I figured we'd hit hell anyway so the number probably didn't matter.
Surrey sounds great. I'm so glad you're having fun :)
Jenny, so glad to hear from you. When last we left you, the GAM was forcing you to go to a physician.
It seemed to have worked.
We have missed you!
You two always leave a conference a buzz and I doubt this one will be any different. Just remember, it may hard for us to bring all the shovels across the border to bury all the evidence.
Okay, I can top the creppy-factor on the age of consent. Like NH, KY lets kids marry at 13 with parental consent. Soooooo ... in an effort to undermine public opinion and reninforce BS sterotypes about the Bluegrass State my Mom's youngest brother (I disavow all relationship with him and did not include him in the family tree I'm passing to my daughter) knocked up his girlfriend when she was 13 (ewwwwwwww) and he was 18. Sure, it was technically just within legality but Mother of God, how gross. And her Mom allowed them to marry!!! I would allow him to be wormfood if it were my kid. They are still married 20+ years later but she has put up with abuse and constant cheating. Their daughter (thank you God) married a nice guy ... when she was 17. But at least this guy is a decent human being. But they have two kids and my Aunt was a grandmother at 34!!!! You know what? If some low-life knocks up my baby (or even comes sniffing around her) I will cut off his dingle dangles. And I will not throw them where the cops can find them.
So CMS, about Canada. Is there anything else we should know about it besides the age of consent? :0)
i know it's been said, but ewww. and of course he's from LA...then anon explained it, so that's ok if they are for under 18yo, i guess, but Andy...ewwww.
but that NH marriage thing jodel pointed out (BTW: welcome) is also ewwwww.
this was just ewwwww.
i want a shower.
but i'm glad the GAM is complaining about sex scenes and you both figured out act four.
after previewing and seeing a new post:
kyra: oh god, that is one of the grossest things i have ever heard.
i really, really want a shower now.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
I'm pretty sure the age of consent in MN is still 16, but I could be wrong. Sure would be handy to have Andy Cohen's gizmo to know for sure :)
BTW: I was curious too, so I went to the Surrey Writer's website and found Andy Cohen's Blurb. 21 doesn't seem like a stretch.
Glad to hear the book is progressing too.
fcgwo: For Crusie gets wonderful offers.
What is all this 'eeewwww' stuff? Biologically, puberty is the point at which humans start to want to copulate and are liable to to do so, if not prised apart with iron bars. Though variable, it averages out at 12 for females, maybe 14 for males. Think of Romeo and Juliet... ;-) A girl was considered marriageable at 12 in most Medieval European societies, as far as I know.
All human communities have a vast number of restrictions and taboos about sexuality, and because our cultures are so complex, it is usually a very bad idea for young teenagers to be sexually active, even though, all over the world, millions of the them are. But I don't see that young teenagers having it off together are any more 'gross' than people of any other age. Illegal these days, maybe, but biologically perfectly natural.
What is abnormal from the purely biological point of view is that human females usually remain sexually receptive and active long past the age when they can breed. I can see that an alien might regard that as 'gross', not knowing the anthropological details about social bonding.
The age of consent in the UK is 16.
Incidentally, here is a fairly comprehensive survey of age of consent worldwide:
http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
Tigress, the Ew factor is not about what teens get up to, but rather the idea of a 14yo and an adult ... or even an 18yo. The gap in maturity (though I seriously doubt the maturity of that adult) makes a mockery of the phrase 'age of consent.'
I guess the "ick" factor on juvenile mating comes from thinking back on the juveniles we've known - and how little they were capable of responding maturely to sexual situations. Take, for example, Romeo and Juliet...
Not that older people necessarily do much better - Antony and Cleopatra, Laertes and Hero, Othello and Desdemona. Geez, people - it's a wonder anyone survives!
Also, while young people may be capable of sex and, therefore, reproduction, they're not really set up quite right to be parents. Historically, in less well-nourished times, girls were apt not to become sexually mature until they were more like 16. And even those medieval folk noticed a certain tendency of very young girls to die in childbirth and produce sickly children. I haven't looked it up, but my impression is that odds of unfortunate outcomes go up for both mother and child when maternal age is under 20 or so. Kyra may know more about this from her anthro studies.
And (as I see MCB has already said) it's hard to imagine that an adult male (even one who is not far over 18) is a suitable partner for a very young girl. Or vice versa. In medieval times, great age disparities were not uncommon in either direction, as marriage was, usually, more of a matter of economic or political alliance than any expectation of great affinity. So, the Canadian system makes some sense - recognizing that young people will fool around with each other, but penalizing adults who want to prey on them.
Apropos of post-reproductive folk continuing to have sex - well, the idea of anyone older than themselves having sex has grossed out teenagers since time immemorial. Biologically, it wouldn't seem to make sense for post-reproductive individuals to stay alive, even - but I believe anthropologists have speculated that the increase in older adults is associated with the origin of culture and its advances, so biology should clearly NOT be our only guide to value.
Diane, in no way, shape or form was I was suggesting that biological imperatives should be our only guide to appropriate sexual behaviour! Nor was I suggesting that it was appropriate for young teenagers to have sex and to reproduce in our type of evolved and complex culture; it isn't. I was simply making the point that expressions of revulsion seem strange applied to a natural activity, as indulged in by those who are biologically strongly motivated to do so. The taboos are cultural, not biological - that goes without saying. But disgust? Just seemed strange to me.
Maybe it's because I have spent so much of my life immersed in the past that I don't think of our current culture as any more a 'norm' than any other.
Tigress, no the disgust is not for teens having sex ... for parents I suppose its more fear and worry that they aren't really mature enough to understand implications or deal with the responsibility.
The disgust is leveled at the adult who preys on juveniles. In medieval times - or lets just say before modern times since the Middle Ages don't have a monopoly on this, girls were married off very young and expected to produce babies because (a) most of the babies would die in infancy so you needed to start producing them young in order to continue the family line; and (b) the girls themselves weren't likely to live to anything we would consider a ripe old age, so you wanted them popping out those babies early.
And perhaps an added factor is that women were not highly valued except as political currency through marriage. Might as well get those worthless girls off your hands while they are young.
Just because it's always been done that way doesn't make it right.
MCB: yes, exactly. I am not suggesting that past societies were superior to our own. Nor are ours necessarily superior to them in every way. Better in some ways, worse in others: no value-judgements here.
And I must have read something too fast - I have been catching up after being away for a few days - because I simply didn't realise that the expressions of revulsion were specifically and solely about age disparity. I thought they were in reponse to the idea of very young teenagers being sexually active.
Agtigress: Poor baby, you were only trying to make a biological point and were briefly thought to be condoning teens and adults! Don't worry we know you didn't mean it that way. You're too cool.
I agree that if a 13 year old girl and a 13 year old boy have intercourse its natural ... stump dumb, but normal. If an adult trys that crap with either minor child its ewwwwwwwww. And I know its considered a good thing for a fifty year old man to take a 14 year old girl as his fourth bride in some regions ... but like female genital mutilation, some levels of ewwwwwwwww are beyond cultural realitivism. IMHO of course.
And maternal death rates increase if a female is under 20, but more significantly the neonatal mortality really increases. Our "natural" biology is more readily seen in hunter gathers(let's go with the !Kung San again)
so girls mature around 16 or so. And they usually don't get pregnant for the first couple of years.
I am sure Agtigress knows more about history than myself, but I think I remember reading that the wee little bride din't actually consumate the marrige until she hit puberty. Which in those nutritious times would be in the middle teens. It was about the virgin widow phenomena. Wish I could remember the sourse!
I must admit I don't want to think of my beloved teen godchildren as being sexual active, in my heart I do say a little ewwww at the thought of young teens doing IT. But I am Prudy McPrude when it comes to "my" babies.
My goodness, we have such interesting comments. Where else would so many euridite responces show up!
AgTigress, are you still there? I have a different question altogether. Last night I got to see a Bible transcribed in 1615 and music from the 1700's. The room was climate controlled, the lights were non-UV. BUT, the person showing the documents to us was actually touching the pages with fingers, and anyone could get close enough to the pages to breath on them. I don't think this is OK, but I want your opinion.
You all remember Jerry Lee Lewis (the country singer), who married his 13 yo cousin? Go, southerners!!! Tuck those hands in your pockets before your knuckles get calloused!
oafyn: Oaf! You Nut!!
I was a little surprised by the "ewww" reaction given the context in which Jenny made the remark. I figured, since she said Andy Cohen is a very funny guy, that he was probably poking fun at his own age in relation to a hot 21 yo blonde and that the disparity had him joking about needing to check on the age of consent in Canada. Though I thought he looked fairly young in the picture on the SIWC website.
It never occurred to me to think he was really considering picking up underage girls. Sheesh. C'mon, a friend of Jenny's? No way.
I thought it was funny. But I'm likely to think just about anything Jenny says is funny. Even when she's being serious -- which is probably not a good thing.
I'm much more concerned about whether Bob kept an eye on his laptop this trip. You know, now that they've figured out Act Four in Agnes. Be a shame to lose all that writing genius in a moment of inattention.
bw
i was saying ewww about the age disparity. teens wanting sex is natural (scope dope isn't here, right?). i was picturing a fifty year old or so, which is why i was going gross. (though 21 and 14 seems weird to me anyways; i had a frind who at fourteen dated a 21 yo, and i thought it was weird then too).
BCB: do not worry us! BOB, WATCH YOUR LAPTOP CONSTANTLY!!!!
BCB said ... I figured, since she said Andy Cohen is a very funny guy, that he was probably poking fun at his own age
Oh, actually I wasn't even considering his role in the discussion! Yes, I assumed he making a funny too. My shriveling end of this discussion thread was was pursuing the topic in a general way. Or as it is put on the copyright page of the book I'm currently reading "Any resemblance to actual events or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental."
For the record:
1) I assumed Andy was being funny to try to rile Jenny who once had a teenage daughter herself.
2) I wasn't disgusted, because people have sex. This is good, otherwise we'd run out of people and I've known 14 year olds who were far more mature than the 40-somethings caring for them, so I'd trust a responsible kid to make his/her own judgment about what he/she is ready for.
3) I was just shocked because *I* was so not ready for that at 14. Somehow, however, I felt it was just fine a short few years later.
4) I thought AgTigress was quite accurate: what we consider "normal" is not necessarily either normal nor good, it just is what we currently consider normal.
Sleepy. Must drink tea and watch television after a lovely day in the out of doors window shopping with a friend who has decided she is not moving out of state. Yippeeeeeee! I was so bummed when she was thinking of moving.
Oh but I am here, orangehands. I have decided to end my exile to the chair in the other room. I am bored silly because I haven't been reading either. Bad eyes. I am still having trouble breathing but the swelling is down a bit so it is much better than it was. Still being tested for various diseases.
Being Canadian I am going to stay out of this discussion. I was surprised at the age. I thought it was older.
"P" Phrase (soon to change to D phrase, my other initial.)
"Platonic friendship is the name given to the period between the first look and the first kiss."
"D" Phrase
"Dance as if no-one is watching you, sing as if no-one is listening, love like you have never been hurt."
Danish Proverb
Working on my WIP trying to get it in shape for the November nanowrmo.
green ndftybk
Now Doherty finds that yex begets kids.
BTW I am the one that gave Bob a medal on a key chain that had GAM engraved on it. Because he just is. As noted by the way he looks after Jenny.
Scope Dope, I've missed you! I'm not sure whether to yell at you for being out of your chair or hug you for it. Please don't hurt yourself.
I love your "D" phrase, especially the last part: "love like you have never been hurt."
Is that possible?
Actually, the "P" phrase was pretty good, too.
Welcome back! Who knew discretion was the better part of being Canadian?
bw
Hey a new blog already! I'll see ya'll there.
PS -- I assumed Andy was making a funny too. But the topic digressed :0)
Hey again! That was me and they wouldn't let me give my name!
orangehands said...
i was saying ewww about the age disparity. teens wanting sex is natural (scope dope isn't here, right?). i was picturing a fifty year old or so, which is why i was going gross.
Ditto, lol
Considering my older daughter just turned 15 and the other one is 13, I can say quite decidedly that neither of them is ready for sex and all the stuff that comes with it!! Holy cow! They are still babies themselves! I can't believe that some of the states still have such antiquated laws. That's a little scary, actually. I can tell you this: if any MAN came sniffing around MY daughters he'd leave carrying his jewels in his hands!!! And that's only if I was feeling merciful... Egads, that is just appalling, really. Those that live in states with such a low age of consent should maybe write their congressman and see if that law could be abolished or something.
But I did think it was funny that Andy had a program in his blackberry to find the age of consent for different countries--who knew anything like that existed?! I would have the percentage to tip the waiter in mine--guess I am just out of the loop!! (sigh) Sucks getting older...
scope dope!!!!!!
wait, i know your a grown woman and all, and no one is in charge of you, but are you allowed out of your chair? geez, i've missed your writing!
your phrases were great. can't decide which one i like better. d phrase had the best ending, but p was wonderful. and for some reason the fact the d phrase came from a D group made me smile.
geez, i've miss you.
orangehands I have missed you too. I got your card. Thank you. It was great also got the thank you note. I seem to be getting a lot of cards lately . That is really nice. I have cards from all over.
It is good to be back. No the doctor did not give me permission to leave my chair but he has sort of thrown his hands in the air as far as what to do for me. Very frustrating. Swelling was going down as I said so that was a good thing but now it is coming back. It may not get so bad as to affect my breathing this time. We shall see. I am just fed up with it all. Sorry. I am venting.
It is nice to have such good friends as you on this blog. Thank you.
blue ixxyd
Initially Xavier Xpected yex, Doherty.
scope dope: just be careful. i get that restless, bored feeling, i do, been there, done that, took care of people dealing with that, but we wnat you healthy and safe and breathing. we love you a lot.
but geez we've missed you.
ScopeDope - You get to vent all you want... there is nothing more frustrating that having a condition that no one has an answer for. So vent away, we're here for you!
ssrdhd
silly sentences read differently, how dasterdly
I wasn't able to get on the blog all day yesterday, so I missed out on the age of consent discussion. Speaking for myself, I was more than ready - interested, turned on, etc. - for sex when I was in my very early teens, but I also had the sense to know it was not a good idea to pursue those feelings. But boy if was hard to resist.
I was 5'9" before I turned 12 and always looked older, so I always dated older men. My first bf, at the age of 12-13 was a 19 y.o in a rock band. LOL! Fortunately, he was a total GAM, sweet, caring, a gentleman. Of course, we met at some rock thing at the beach in SF, so he had no idea of my age. When my grandmother answered the phone one evening when he called and yelled at him for chasing a 12 year old, the poor thing nearly died. He never spoke to me again. Sigh.
So, most people would say euuuwww or be outraged at him for dating a baby, but I looked and acted much older than my age, so he really had no way of knowing. So, let's reserve the negative reactions for the guys (or gals) who deliberately target kids because they are the most likely to fall for someone professing to love them. That just deserves something really bad.
udkytt (blue)
a flying cow?
Zaza lectured ... So, let's reserve the negative reactions for the guys (or gals) who deliberately target kids because they are the most likely to fall for someone professing to love them. That just deserves something really bad.
Amen.
good end to the topic, zaza.
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