SHE WROTE: And now for something completely different . . .
So we’re still working on Agnes because I don’t write as fast as Bob, but my rewrites are fabulous so I’m worth the wait, and then Bob sighs and follows along behind me and cleans up any inconsistencies I’ve written into his action scenes and tries not to scream . . .
Where was I?
Right, we’re still working on Agnes but we’re there. I mean, the book is done, we’re just making it better. And this weekend we’re going to talk to the Chesapeake RWA, and if you’re there you’re going to see us probably wrangling over it still, but it’ll be over the polish because basically, it’s done. Not done enough that I can legitimately heave a sigh of relief because I can’t let go of it yet, I know I can make it better, and Bob, if you put the thumb screws to him, would also admit that we’re making it better, although frankly, he’d have been so much happier if we’d turned it in weeks ago because he hates missing a deadline more than he hates having to discuss a relationship, but even Bob will tell you that it’s better, especially since he got to put the bomb back in. Which is kind of a spoiler, so don’t tell anybody.
Speaking of spoilers, about next year. We’re both going to be working on our solo books for awhile before we begin shaping up the new collaboration, although Bob, being the workaholic he is, wants to start wargaming it next weekend (“I remember when I used to call that ‘brainstorming’,” she said with a sigh) when he’s in Cincinnati to do the last stop on the Living the Dream tour, but we have another collaboration in mind, too: He Wrote, She Wrote 2007.
(Stop screaming, CBs, it’s not going to be like this year’s, you can’t play on it, which is why we made you set up your own space.)
He Wrote, She Wrote 2007 is not going to be a journal because we figure the world has heard all it needs of our personal travails in collaborating on and promoting our novels since, frankly, the ensuing years are just going to be more of the same. It’s not like we’re going to mature. So we sat in my living room several weeks ago and decided it was time to do something Educational and Interesting instead of Whiny and Self-Involved.
Which is why the 2007 blog is going to be called He Wrote, She Wrote: How To Write Fiction. Or He Wrote, She Wrote: How to Write a Novel. Or He Wrote She Wrote: Damn It Bob, We Can’t Call It How To Write Because We’re Not Doing Non-Fiction. So we have some bugs to work out. But the plan is good. Every Sunday one of us will post on a writing topic, and then the following Thursday, the other person will post a response to that post and whatever showed up in the comments on writing. Anything in the comments that’s not on writing gets deleted. Think of it as a class. If you chat, we kick you out. That’s because it’s hard for people to scroll through chat to get the writing stuff. We’ll be taking a semester break in August to promote Agnes and go to Australia and New Zealand, and during that time we’ll talk about publishing and promoting. Then in September, it’s back home and back to writing topics again.
We have no idea how this will work. It may be that we’ll post and there’ll be crickets, but that’s okay, we’re used to amusing ourselves. Or maybe it’ll turn into a really great writing forum, and we’ll get some exciting arguments started. Bob’s already planning something on Why Prologues Are Good. That’s going to be one ugly week.
Bob will come in here and blog later with the schedule we worked out, but we’ll probably change that, too. And frankly, I think you should weigh in when he does, because my argument was that it should be all about writing, no publishing stuff, and he said no, the publishing stuff was important, and then it got heated, so if you see anything missing from the list of writing topics, feel free to point out that the missing topic is more important than something in the publishing list. Really.
Oh, and eventually, we’ll rewrite the whole thing and elaborate on the topics and make it into a book. Maybe. Who knows? We thought that about this year’s blog, too, and then it became The Blog That Ate Chicago, and we wandered off and forgot about the book idea entirely. Unless Bob is plotting something behind my back.
Going back to Agnes now. It has no prologue and never will.

150 Comments:
WOW - never been first before!!
Gonna miss the banter
LTD in Kansas
Sissy
There are advantages to staying up so late. You get Jenny's new post.
I have kept quiet all this time about the fact that Bob said in New Jersey "we have plans" when I complained about you kicking us out of the basement. Now I know what he was referring to. Teaching us about writing would be good too. I guess we could chat on our blog and come learn on yours. That would be okay too. We just didn't want to lose you.
I thought you might like to know that I needed the name of a little boy for my story on NaNoWriMo and so little Bobby Doherty had a birthday party at Chucky Cheese last Saturday. That was quite convenient since I was looking at a copy of Area 51 when I was looking for a little boy's name.
recimw
Robert could dine in my writing.
Yippee! Another year of the Bob & Jenny, Jenny & Bob Show! Of course, the focus groups came back, and the network bosses decided they needed to tweak the format, but hey....
And don't worry about crickets. I highly doubt you'll be hearing the sounds of silence. There are people in this group who'd pay good money to watch the two of you argue over the proper way to read a phone book. (Bob would want to go alphabetical by last name, to preserve his sense of order; Jenny would like to just cut to the important stuff - who needs the Xs anyway?)
And there are a number of us CherryBombs who just want to hear the pearls of wisdom. Even if its Bob telling us how to get along with publishers who can only ask, "Why you can't just make the hero a vampire and the heroine a time-traveling stripper superhero? It would sell so much better than this introspective relationship crap."
Seriously. I'm still waiting for the book on writing you promised us when you took all your writing articles down off your site. I had even put aside the $30 to buy it in hardcover.
Cary said,
"There are people in this group who'd pay good money to watch the two of you argue over the proper way to read a phone book. (Bob would want to go alphabetical by last name, to preserve his sense of order; Jenny would like to just cut to the important stuff - who needs the Xs anyway?)"
*snort* For some reason I think that is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Having seen them in person, the image is so vivid in my mind!!!!!
Ok- we will go play in our rooms as the Big People have to work for a living. But we can always peek through the stairs and watch them. And maybe add a comment or two. We may need a designated commenter. Yes, that's it. CB's all agreeing on one thing. That'll happen!
Jen-T- I am typing in the dark and I need your fingernails.
Bryan- hope your thumb is better.
Jenny- I hope you are still glowing and basking even though you are rewriting. CW never met the CB's!
Santa Baby is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. Why oh why do I live in the middle of the cornfields with no big bookstore? WAH. I'll have to read it fast before Grey's Anatomy comes on! And then read it again!
Ah, the blog continues....with the CBs on the sideline peeking into the wisdom of She and He, Jenny and Bob.....delightful.
No prologue?....good!
qkvsj...green
quiet kindly visions, solidly Jenny
We have our own space? What else did I miss?
lipirly -- an injunction to comment promptly
Wow, another new blog. Go, Jenny. This is really great. I needed something to read that I hadn't written. One of the drawbacks of NaNo, you get very, very tired of reading your own writing.
Oh, can any of the other NaNo-ers tell me how the freaking hissie fits we're supposed to update out word counts??? It's totally different from last year, and I'm too sleepy to figure it out.
zxmptaig (red)
Zesty Xerxes married pretty, talented Atalanta in Greece. Heh. Almost "historically" correct.
Well, Tal, we will have our own space, as soon as I finish building it. It will be slow, due to NaNo and other responsibilities, but I hope to have it up for testing by the end of the month. That will give us all of December to work out the kinks.
abaxwt (red)
As Bob arced Xavier, we twirled. LOL! Don't ask me what it means.
BTW, I'm going to try to blog every day about the NaNo experience. I've been really bad about keeping it up - too much going on in my real world. But I figure NaNo will defintely give me things to talk about and angst to get off my chest. Or is that Agnes??? If anyone wants to take a look...Hint. Hint.
xqmeyhzy (blue)
Xavier quietly made evil yellow hens zip yolks. Hey, it's late and Ive been outlining my NaNo book.
OH MY BOB!!!!!!!
ok, sorry, Jenny, but OH MY BOB!!!!!
i think it should be on writing and publishing. maybe switch off for each month. or maybe focus on writing and every once in awhile go into publishing.
BUT OH MY BOB, we're getting a free, year-long workshop with any questions (about this) we have answered.
OH MY BOB.
seriously, last one, i promise Jenny. but geez, this should keep me awake in my classes tomorrow.
and we will keep any extraneous chatter on the other blog. we can do it. i mean, we should start investing in duct tape, but other than that, no problems.
THIS IS SO COOL!
will go read your blog, zaza, before writing the 82nd chapter to Tao Te Ching. night all.
I LOVE YOU J&B!!!!
ok, ok, i'm gonna go do homework.
on a completely other subject, did i mention my sandal/shoe things broke in the shower today? and they're rubber, too. geez.
BUSINESS
Gatorperson, was it you that was a database wonk? Could you (or whoever, if it's not Gator) email me? zlamarr @ gmail . com
This will be good, J & B. I love it when you focus on writing, but I also love it when you focus on so many other things. Does this mean that you will be updating Arrrgh Ink more frequently? Hope. And probably that means that Bob will go back to inserting a two sentence 'update' on his blog every quarter year?
I thought I missed something...looking forward to hearing about the CB's own space!
Geez, I go to bed early one flipping night....
Jenny: While I'll be first in line to buy Agnes, I'm even more excited about this blog on writing/publishing. Yeah, I hate to agree with Bob, but publishing is an important part of the writing process. I probably wouldn't say that if I were in a different place, but what an eye opener it is to get published and then have to deal with "publishing" and "writing". I'm strill struggling to make it all work. I look forward to seeing the list of topics to be covered and more on the game plan. I'm sure I'll be able to come up with so many topics (in the writing section, promise) that I won't be shy in asking.
To be honest, the two of you have given some of the best workshops I've attended. I've learned more about writing, the business and more importantly, myself since I started listening to you two and attending your workshops. The point is...
Besides basking in your glow from being right two years ago...the opportunity to learn from you two is one I won't pass up. I think you both are some of the most amazing, talented people I've had the pleasure of meeting and reading. I look forward to learn from the best!
Yeah, I know, you all think I'm sucking up...so what. I'm intitled to a "meaningful" comment now and then.
I vote for "He Wrote She Wrote: Damn It Bob, We Can’t Call It How To Write Because We’re Not Doing Non-Fiction." Or, riffing from SNL, "He Wrote She Wrote: Bob you ignorant slut."
Really demonstrates your synergy.
For those of us who can't do the travling bit to conferences, this is a fabulous boon. Thank You.
Deb wrote: "Bob you ignorant slut." OH MY GOD! That is too funny.
I'm so excited I can't stand it. A whole year of Bob and Jenny, Jenny and Bob on the art(and business:sigh:)of writing. Yay! We're going to learn how to arc flamingos, and other assorted motifs.
I am totally geeked about the 2007 Bob&Jenny Show! Since I've been unable to make the live conferences, this will be just as good. Except without the getting kicked out of bars part. I can't wait!
deb, OMG. Thank you for that wake-me-up this morning. It made me snort and spit-take at the same time and I just about choked to death.
Jenny wrote: The Blog that Ate Chicago. I think I saw that one.
At least I'm almost awake now. I'm in week 2 of a hacking cough and in a fit of desperation I grabbed a bottle to prescription cough syrup from the back of the cabinet at 3AM this morning. You got it. Its the drowsy kind, but not the kind with codiene, thank Bob. I am considering taking Diet Coke #2 via IV.
I think I could actually stay on topic. Really.
kypdh: Krazy yellow poodles dance happily.
Yep, the medicine is a doozie.
Ditto what Jen said. Great idea. Can’t quite believe you two are willing to offer what is essentially a year-long writer’s workshop. I must still be asleep -- anyone tries to pinch me right now is asking to lose an arm. And we can ask questions? And you’ll answer? Really?
Because I’m still waiting for Bob to come over here and explain the difference between narrative structure and three/four/five act structure. Yes, darlin’, I really am that dense and I really want to know.
But, you know, I’m thinking you two might maybe sort of miss the fun stuff once in a while. So when you’re making that schedule, could you pencil in a few guest posts at the new CB place? Where you could hold forth at length on the topic of your choice? Maybe once a month? You could take turns? As terrific as the two of you are at teaching, it would be a shame if we never again got to see the snarky riled-up Jenny or the rantish moody Bob.
Don’t answer now. Just think about it.
Besides, I probably have to ask the other CBs whether it would be ok. We haven’t really talked about inviting guests over to the new place. We might have to take a vote. Or quell a stampede.
Oh, and if you’re worried about crickets [geez, are you serious?], I could let you borrow my cat. She loves crickets. Well, except for the legs. Sorry, you’re going to have to clean those up yourselves.
Hey, if you're willing to educate us, it's the least I can do.
bw
bcb: I'm thinking it would be OK. But that's just me.
Publishing wisdom! Yes, I want publishing wisdom.
pocxy: Rhymes with doxy.
Okay I know Jen is excited and in awe because she spelled her entire comment correctly. After all this time it was actually harder to read that way.
Jenny, I know we, um, carried away sometimes but if you browse through you'll see that we have thoroughly enjoyed and often stayed on topic - for a while - when you two blogged on writing and publishing. So don't worry about crickets. Deleting comments won't be necessary ... we'll keep the duct tape handy in case anyone gets out of hand.
BCB said ... Besides, I probably have to ask the other CBs whether it would be ok.
Sure. Let's take a vote ... everybody NOT in favor of guest posts by Bob and/or Jenny say Nay ... *chirp ... chirp* There's your crickets, Jenny.
Talpianna! Yes the CBs are getting a new home. Mom and dad are kicking us out of the basement at the end of the year but they are letting us take the tv and sofa (well its got a dip stain on it anyway). Building supplies have been purchased towards the new CB Bar&Grill, and Zaza has been chief architect in charge. Until all electrical and plumbing is done, we may have to hang out in Bryan's spare room. Oh, and we purchased some land in Tierra del Fuego from which we can base our TOTW campaign.
EXCELLENT. Great plan! I doubt there will be crickets - and (sorry, Cherry Bombs) I applaud the no-chat rule.
Amazing. What a wonderful way to wake up. I love good news.
You guys have been so generous with your words this year, I can only dream of what an entire blog on writing and publishing would be like. I've actually learned more about writing from this blog than from most workshops.
Thank you so much for being such caring, sharing, and interesting characters. The writing world needs more people like you.
rg
Christmas came early this year!
Even those of us CBs that aren't fiction writers have learned much about writing from the HWSW blog. I know it has helped me become a more discerning reader. I expect more from the books I've been reading. The bar has been raised.
Who knows, with the opportunity to take an on-line HWSW class, I might take up my keyboard and explore the basement.
I'm sure all CBs will do their best to stay on topic. It'll be like a virual college experience. Classes on Sunday and Thursday, study groups as need - on topic only, and then a place close by to hang out, decompress, and eat chocolate!
So, it is OK in writing/publishing, to stretch deadlines, if it really is making for a better book?
dtrjgc - Directed topics required, Jenny, GAW, clarified.
Totally on topic - from yesterday.
More basking in the glow and references to HWSW and collaborations.
http://thelipstickchronicles.typepad.com/the_lipstick_chronicles/
Sorry, you'll have to cut/paste into your browser, the link thing is beyond my skills and patience.
Marcia - Thanks for posting that link. That is tooo funny and well worth the extra effort of the cut'n'paste. And B&J, J&B get a shout out!
ggharp - The sound my dog made when he discovered the tortellini I'd dropped on the floor.
The no-chat rule: I can see both sides of this.
If there is a clear topic that many members wish to explore in detail, meandering conversations and asides can become a bit annoying, especially when there are hundreds of posts to wade through. On the other hand, when people get to 'know' one another, they naturally want to converse as friends do, which means in a meandering, free-form way, about subjects that may be peripheral or completely irrelevant.
This is precisely why I dislike the blog-plus-comments format! The type of forum format that accepts separate threads with clear subject titles permits both kinds of interaction to take place. I know this is a lost cause now, of course.
:-)
As odd as this is to say, I agree with everything that Jen said earlier. Since I only recently decided to write seriously, I was lamenting the fact that by the time I get around to actually attending my first conference "YEX and Violence" would have already had its final run.
THUMB UPDATE: The swelling has gone down and though it's still a bit painful I can actually move the thumb now. It has begun to turn some really festive colors however. How the hell does green get mixed up in there?
YOUNG GIRL WITH FLAT TIRE UPDATE: She asked what kind of cookie was my favorite, and banishing all thoughts of Dee's definition, I answered Oatmeal Raisin. It turns out that she's twenty-two, which for me is still a young girl though technically she wouldn't get me thrown out of my favorite bar and she does fall in the 21-50 age range that I use as my guide. And I didn't teach her any new swear words when I hurt my thumb. She asked, "Are you okay?" And I said, "Yep."
SISTERS FRIEND IN ENGLAND UPDATE: ::crickets:: No response whatsoever. Her e-mail is AOL, and I know AOL is bad about trashing e-mail from addresses not in your address book, so it's possible she never got it. But, it's not important enough to do it all again... especially if she did receive it but just wasn't interested. Then I'd just be Crazy American Cyber-Stalker Dude. I don't want to be him.
slgdm - What the lug wrench did to my hand.
so glad to know about your blog and am _really_ looking forward to the 2007 version, whatever you end up calling it! I like the educational aspect so I'll be staying tuned. Speaking of staying tuned ... I try to spend more time writing than Internet'ing so if we're signed up for the mailing list will that bop us over the head when there's a new posting for the 2007 blog entries?
Cheers from Canada,
Diane
www.dianeschuller.com
Jen T said "Yeah, I know, you all think I'm sucking up...so what. I'm intitled to a "meaningful" comment now and then."
McB said "Okay I know Jen is excited and in awe because she spelled her entire comment correctly. After all this time it was actually harder to read that way."
Not quite. Intitled is really entitled, so it is still all good.
And I sincerely hope Jenny and Bob come over and spew snark occasionally. Giving out writing pearls of wisdom is absolutely cool of them, but I would miss the snark terribly.
I'm flattered that anyone agrees with me. Usually people just stare blankly at me like I have five heads or something. Usually my ideas are a little left (or right) of normal and most of the time I don't sound all that intelligent. Shut up BCB. I know I have my moments. And as far as having an almost "mistake" free comment, well, hell. When I actually have to make sense I try and atleast let it make sense in spelling too. When I'm digging deep and not just saying whatever pops into my head, well, then I'm thinking and that takes time. Those comments take like forever and sometimes they hurt my head.
But not that one. I meant every damn spelled right or wrong word of it. Not only are Bob and Jenny amazing writers and totally awesome people, they are great teachers. For that, I thank them both!
Thank you! I like you banter too, but I _love_ your writing information. I'm glad HWSW:TBA will be around longer. I've really enjoyed this and moved it to the top of my daily reads.
I also welcome the idea that we can ask writing questions.
JulieB
BCB sez: As terrific as the two of you are at teaching, it would be a shame if we never again got to see the snarky riled-up Jenny or the rantish moody Bob.
Do you really think that either is capable of teaching sans snark/rant? Please. As Jenny said, they're not going to mature. Thank goodness.
And I enjoy hearing about the process (sorry, Jenny, even the publisher part, though I'd say the mix should be 5 parts writing to 1 part publishing) even though I don't write fiction (well, except marketing materials--hah!).
I actually had an idea for a novel (this happens a lot), but it's not really enough to sustain a book (which also happens a lot). I get a bit of what happens to a character, or a tiny scene, or a bit of a piece of a plot, but nothing more than that. I don't think I have the attention span for a novel. Or even a short story. Writing, not reading, of course.
Perhaps next year will teach me what it takes to sustain a book, despite Jenny's saying that Agnes looked small on the white board. Maybe you should just tell Agnes she looks slimmer on the whiteboard. :)
Bryan: you are a really, really sweet boy. What a darlin' you are.
Jen-T sez: Usually people just stare blankly at me like I have five heads or something.
That would be because you're an alien, dear, but you're OUR alien, so we like you that way. :)
Hey J&B will always be welcome at "our place" I know Iknow they threw us out, but, I figure sorta "knowing" J&B they'll need sompelace to vent once in a while. We should have figured Bob was working on a plan to get rid of all the "small talk"
Change of topic
I envy you writers, talking about arc and themes etc. readers {like me anyway} don't know how much work is involved. We happily read the book you sweated blood over. and say "I liked that", or not.
I never thought thought I'd say this, but being a writer is worse than making meals, inasmuch as I don't spend THAT much time over even the fussiest meal. One good thing though, if I like a book I can reread it. Well gotta run, work hard and get all your words done for the nanon?
sympathetic [[[H]]] to all who need them
nanaimo - I sent you an email, but in case you don't get it - I can't make Reno. Got new project at work with early deadline - can't take any time off (not happy, but need roof over my head and pets get hungry!)
Bryan - glad thumb is getting better, you sweetheart!!
I'm all for asking J&B if they will guest blog at our new home. I also think it's way cool that they are willing to give a year-long lesson for free. It will be very informative, even for those of us who are readers, not writers (at least not fiction). Looking forward to it!!
jzafkrou
Jenny zestfully asks (a) friend, kindly retrain our users
That's just brilliant, and I'm ecstatic as well. I may not write, but I do love to learn from both of you. I'll be proud to go back to lurking on the HW/SW blog.
While my vote is for Deb's idea of name (love it), here are some that wanted out of my head...
He Wrote, She Wrote: You Benefit.
He Wrote, She Wrote: You Write, Better.
He Wrote, She Wrote: You Learn. (A Lot.)
He Wrote, She Wrote: You Decide Who's Right.
All of these would of course be followed by a blurb explaining the purpose of the blog and giving J&B the kudos and respect they deserve as writers, teachers, and gods/goddesses.
dvdvb: "DVD!" votes Bob.
My own humble suggestion:
He Wrote, She Wrote: Learn From the Pros
He Wrote, She Wrote: So Help Me, Bob.
Well that is fabulous news. Can't wait!!!!
Sorry to interrupt ;)
bryan: you've got my vote.
Oh, Lori? We've got another slogan for you to add to the list ...
If anyone is interested, meaning those of you in the general UK area, there will be an Irish music festival kind of thingie:
in St. James’ Church in Dingle, Co. Kerry on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th December and audience tickets are on sale from November 3rd only on www.tickets.ie. The series will be broadcast on RTÉ Two in 2007.
They'll be filming them for television. It's a collection of the best modern voices in Irish music. James Blunt, Mundy, The Waterboys, The Frames and The Thrills have performed in past years. Don't know who's up this year.
Anyone want more info, Laura Murtagh is the woman who sent me the press release laura @ hummingbirdproductions . ie (remove the spaces). They've done this at least a couple times before, and they're fantastic. I got the press release because I inquired about the availability of a DVD. Unfortunately, they haven't done them so far, but maybe this time.
"...those of you in the general UK area".
ROFL! I know the British Isles may appear small on a map to North Americans, but honestly, the furthermost tip of County Kerry is quite a long way from most parts of Great Britain in terms of travelling time! I'm pretty sure you could get there just as quickly from New York or Philadelphia as you could from London. :-)
The Dingle Peninsula, and indeed Kerry as a whole, is a most enchanting place; sublime scenery, and a mystical, edge-of-the-world feeling to it. I was there in 1971; it is one of so many places I should love to visit again.
Bryan wrote:
He Wrote, She Wrote: So Help Me, Bob
or one could get creative with the punctuation:
He Wrote, She Wrote: So, Help Me Bob
and G-G chastised: Do you really think that either is capable of teaching sans snark/rant? Please. As Jenny said, they're not going to mature. Thank goodness.
You're right. Geez, what was I thinking? Never mind, J&B, no need whatsoever to express your fun-loving selves over on the new CB blog. Forget I mentioned it.
Was that a sigh of relief I just heard?
bw
CB Bar and Grill aka The Blog That Ate Chicago.
marcia: oooo, I like that one too!
Wish I was able to come up with such good ideas. I'm not sure what was in the cough syrup this morning, but I am pretty sure I'm not to be operating any heavy machinery.
btuda: good to know. I'll cancel the order for the jackhammer then, shall I?
bon cheri bomb said...
Besides, I probably have to ask the other CBs whether it would be ok. We haven’t really talked about inviting guests over to the new place. We might have to take a vote. Or quell a stampede.
Oh, yeah, like we're going to say no to Mom and Dad. They can guest rant, er blog, any time they like. It'll feel just like home. We may be moving above ground, but I think we'll all be homesick for the basement for quite a while.
(Pssst! Do you think that was pitiful enough to make them feel sorry for us poor, evicted babies?)
AgTigress said...
"...those of you in the general UK area".
ROFL! I know the British Isles may appear small on a map to North Americans, but honestly, the furthermost tip of County Kerry is quite a long way from most parts of Great Britain in terms of travelling time!
As is Los Angeles from San Francisco, but that doesn't stop us Californians from considering it an overnight trip. We'll drive two hours for a good restaurant, or three hours for an afternoon in Carmel, so that trip doesn't seem outlandish to me. Another difference between us Yanks and you Brits, I guess. ;+) I'd do it, if I were in England/Scotland and had the interest.
zaza: yuppers! In 1990 when I was visiting friends in London they said they (and I) were going to spend Easter with a friend of theirs, but it was a very, very long trip and maybe because of that I wouldn't want to go. How long a drive? About 1-1/2 hours. I laughed my head off.
I informed them that some people in California commute that far to work every day and they were horrified.
But I'd be horrified if I had a 1-1/2 hour commute (each way), too.
That is something I noticed when I visited Germany many years ago. People were more relaxed and not so fixated on their watches, streets were much cleaner, and you could get from one country to another faster than going from state to state here. (except in the New England area) Everything seemed closer together.
Heck Zaza, G-G, I get that with people on this side of the pond all the time. I can't figure out if it's a West Coast thing, a generational thing, or a suburbanite thing.
I think I was practically raised in a car. All through childhood, it was "lets get in the car": a sit-down dinner out was a 20-40 minute drive depending on where the folks wanted to eat, the malls were a 30 minute drive, etc.
I moved to a community (Portland) with strict urban growth boundaries, and people here just don't get why I chose a 30-minute commute. (Hah! I had a 45 minutes to an hour in the car each way for my first job.)
Not that I wouldn't live closer in if I could afford it... *Sigh*
ysrttb - Yes, Sir! Readers Totally Tote Books (everywhere)
BTW - My shrink and I were having a conversation about my relationship with books. He was asking why I don't get more sleep at night, and I told him it's because I get involved in what I'm reading and lose track of time/don't want to put it down.
He thinks this meets the definition of a compulsion/addiction. (And he doesn't even know about Hot Toy.) Anyone else think my shrink isn't much for reading?
Cary - My line to non-readers used to be "reading is cheaper that going to a shrink". But, that was before the price of books got so high.
Cary,
What do you think your shrink would say about us CBs? If reading a good book well into the night is compulsion/addiction, what would shovels and TOTW be classified as? Maybe you just better not mention us to him.
On long commutes, I think these are more common in places where there are two metropolitan areas near each other. I've lived in the Tucson-Phoenix, San Francisco-San Jose, and Baltimore-Washington areas. For some reason, people seem to live in one and work in the other, don't know why. When I worked in DC, I'd have loved to move there, but my place in Baltimore was gorgeous, huge and about a quarter the rent of a comparable place in DC. My friend and her husband lived in Philly for a while, with her going back and forth to NYC and him to the state capitol, Allentown??? It wasn't too bad, except in snow season.
I think, especially for those of us born and raised in CA, that we've grown up with freeways, so longish drives just seem normal. Living in SF, you have to drive outside the City if you want a place to shop with parrking, well, mostly. And who wants to struggle home with multiple packages on public transportation? I did that for too many years before I had my first car. /;+)
hgbefde (blue)
Hi, girls! Bet everyone feels desireable enough. Hey, Blogger gave me the letters.
Zaza said, "I think, especially for those of us born and raised in CA, that we've grown up with freeways, so longish drives just seem normal."
Exactly! My parents were both Californians in the '50s and '60s. Don't get more "car culture" than that!
K.L. said...
"Cary,
What do you think your shrink would say about us CBs? If reading a good book well into the night is compulsion/addiction, what would shovels and TOTW be classified as? Maybe you just better not mention us to him."
Uh, too late for that. Since I stopped lurking and started posting while in the middle of a manic episode, I'm afraid y'all had to come up in therapy. Don't worry, since he's a Freudian psychiatrist, we're still working on childhood. The CBs are a long way off. I don't think that the Girls in the Basement, the Lurkers in the Attic, or Grover's pink tutu with the pirate patch thong will come up very soon.
Could you even imagine my trying to explain BCB, MCB, et al's virtual bus tour? We'd all be fending off the white coat brigade.
gymlor - The stories Glamour-Geek's trainer has to tell....
Zaza - my point was not about distances per se but about time. A given distance, say 300 miles, within Great Britain will usually take substantially longer to cover than the same distance in the USA because of the topography. We do not have large expanses of flattish countryside with straight, level roads. When I was commuting daily, my journey into / out of town could take anything between 20 and 75 minutes: the distance is about 5 miles; the average speed of traffic within London is actually less than 5 mph. And in many rural areas, such as north Wales, the narrow, steep and very winding mountain roads impose a slow average speed for safety reasons. I am very surprised indeed to learn of any Londoners (mentioned by Glamour-Geek) who regard a 1½-hour journey as long, since many London commuters regard this as a normal morning and evening trip to and from work.
Most Europeans are perfectly relaxed about travelling a fair way, and into another country, for something they want to attend: I have attended scores of conferences in other European and Middle Eastern countries. A weekend in Cairo or Boston is not a big deal. The point is, it doesn't take much longer to get from London to Cairo or Boston than it does to get to the west coast of Wales or the Scottish Highlands, although the latter are much closer in terms of mileage.
My point was simply to emphasise that the time/distance relationship may be other than what Americans expect simply from glancing at a map. As I said, Dingle is probably 'closer' to Philly, time-wise, than to London.
;-)
I'm much more European than American in that sense: I grew up in downtown Toronto (well, midtown if you prefer, in the Annex) til I was 11, didn't own a car til I was 24, and I only put about 8K miles on my car each year, well below our national average.
Well Cary,
If talking about us to your therapist is the price to pay for getting you out of the attic, it is well worth it. Just, umm, maybe keep the hotel incident off the radar. No need to frighten him.
Cary said ... He thinks this meets the definition of a compulsion/addiction.
Yeah? So? Jeez you say that like its not normal.
Time and travel ... East coasters don't pay much attention to the miles either. I live in Maryland, work in DC and already this year I've been to Georgia, Florida, Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, West Virginia and North Carolina. All except GA and FL by car. And I'd have driven those two except driving time cuts into vacation time. Of course, as Tigress pointed out we have have more options for the roads we travel. The expressway which is boring, avoiding most metro areas, but faster; or the through roads that let you visit each little town. I've used both depending on my mood and how much time I have free for the drive. I just pop in an audio book and ... oops, there's that addiction again.
He Wrote, She Wrote: The Bob and Jenny Show, part deux
MCB wrote: already this year I've been to Georgia, Florida, Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, West Virginia and North Carolina
What? What?! You came to NC and didn't stop by to see me? I'm hurt.
and Cary wrote: Could you even imagine my trying to explain BCB, MCB, et al's virtual bus tour?
We took a BUS tour? Never mind explaining that to your shrink, you need to get back over here and explain it to ME. And BTW, if you ever get tired of having to explain yourself all the damn time, just send him/her over here to read the comments. You'll be pronounced "normal" in no time. Though the rest of us might be in big trouble.
I know I have lots of OCD-type behaviours but I figure if it doesn't bother me, and it doesn't, why should it bother anyone else? If we all got rid of our strange quirks we'd be boring as hell.
When I lived in Atlanta (no other big metropolitan areas nearby, believe me) I had a commute of an hour and twenty minutes to the office downtown, each way. Going downtown on a Saturday night took 20 minutes, tops. Sometimes it's not the topography, it's the traffic.
My mom still becomes irriated as all get out when she asks how far away something is here (expecting a mileage estimate, which I consider irrelevant) and instead I tell her how long it takes to get there.
She says: Don't you have a trip odometer in your car? And I say: Yeah, but I don't know how it works.
bw
McB spake thusly (albeit in Broad Scots* and iambic pentameter):
My own humble suggestion:
He Wrote, She Wrote: Learn From the Pros
Beg to differ, Ms. Thane. Shouldn't that be "Learn from the Prose"?
And Jen, personally I think those 5 heads are quite attractive on you. Not every alien can pull that sort of thing off. Must be a pain, trying to coordinate 5 hairstyle at once :(
Bryan, clearly this overseas woman was not worthy of a man of your superior qualities. Her loss. Tsk.
*If that's how the broads speak, then how do men in Scotland speak?**
**Do men in Scotland speak?
AgTigress said...
My point was simply to emphasise that the time/distance relationship may be other than what Americans expect simply from glancing at a map. As I said, Dingle is probably 'closer' to Philly, time-wise, than to London.
When a friend and I were in England, with a rental car, we stayed in a B&B (or home stay, really) in Bath after we'd been in the country about a week. I can't remember exactly how many miles we had on the car, but they were totally amazed. We ended up with several thousand miles on the odometer before we turned the car in, after only two weeks. ;+))) We drove into the countryside a lot, including Wales, and it was gorgeous. I guess because my grandparents and several family friends live in the country where roads are very narrow, steep and winding, I'm used to that, too. Nothing much worries me about driving or putting miles on the car.
When we missed the ferry to the Isle of Man, we took a little sidetrip to Edinburgh. LOL! Well, we had two days before we could get tickets to travel with our car, and that was someplace we hadn't been yet. Yeah, it's an American mindset, I think. I was thinking in terms of flying to Ireland for an overnight or weekend - didn't look at the calendar to see what days the concerts were covering.
sazpi (green)
Borat's pet shitzu (or however you spell that)
I would like my shirt to read:
For the love of Bob
I've been using that phrase quite a bit lately and people around me are starting to pick up on it. I find that fun.
lyocip: Look, your oddness can intimadate people.
zaza sez: where roads are very narrow, steep and winding
Hey, Mary! Can you say Moloka'i, the road to Halawa Valley!? Hah!
Posted signs along the way:
Road narrows, speed limit 15 MPH.
Curvy road ahead.
Limited sight distance.
(no kidding, I never would have noticed that with all the curves in the road and the limited visibility and all!)
then:
Road narrows, speed limit 10 MPH.
Curvy road ahead.
Limited sight distance.
then:
Road narrows, speed limit 5 MPH.
Curvy road ahead.
Limited sight distance.
(by this point it's one lane--not one lane in each direction, just one lane--and some pull outs)
g-g, who is driving, turns to mary and says, "If the next one says 'road narrows, bike path' I'm turning around!"
Curvy roads. Hee hee! Curvy roads.
BCB: i normally do time it takes, but every once in awhile i do distance- as in, from here to there is the length of my index finger on a small map. :)
i don't mind the time or distance, but i mind paying that much for gas. which is why i don't go very far unless i plan to make a day out of it.
and yes, while i was mailing my absentee ballot in town today, i picked up Santa Baby. couldn't help it. but i have enough control to wait till tomorrow after my midterm. i do!
and, to quote my teenage peers, duh J&B can come guest blog.
lori: i want that shirt too. :)
Mary...
I do believe the Scottish men speak in "Kilts".
tekujx...blue
takes every kind under Jenny's Xpertize
LOU No I didn't get your e-mail...I'm having a lot of trouble with people getting through.
I'm so sorry we won't get to meet each other in Reno It would have been good fun to meet another CB. Maybe some other time.
You are so right about the time it takes to travel in the UK. I think it's because there are all those small villages every 5 minutes. In Scotland once you get further north they also have the single lane, with the car closest to the layby having to reverse into the layby, so the other car can pass, AND don't forget the sheep, they have no conception of "right of way" it's ALWAYS their right of way
sgylz green squigles.
I used to drive through Germany at night from one Canadian base to another, with two little kids in the car. Quite often on one side of the narrow road would be a huge drop off and on the other a cliff face. Because of where I was going the Autobahn with its wonderful paved wide road was not an option.
Hi. Have updated my blog finally. I had to give up on the Michael stories because he is 16 now and does not appreciate tales of his life at 2-6yo. so now I am rambling on. Currently talking about NaNo and the New Jersey conference.
Still writing. I am very lucky because for the past two days the words have just been coming to me. I know there will be days when that won't happen so I am trying to get down as much as I can and take Sheryl's advice and just write it. Good luck to all the others involved. I just dropped in for the coffee and cookies mcb set aside for us.
lori and orangehands check your email.
mcb, robin s and deeNancy Herkness sent me a note and said the CBs were a great bunch. Thought you'd like to know.
lydvme
Liking yachting does very many Englishmen in.
Maybe the new blog should be called something like "He Wrote, She Deleted." Or vice versa.
At least this moving-out-of-the-basement thing seems to be going calmly. Of course, there's still time for us all to wind up on DR. PHIL...
At least we'd get some free therapy out of it. Or J&B would. And Dr. Phil would pay our moving expenses and a couple of months' rent.
But will our new home have a nice green lawn, suitable for decoration with molehills? And plenty of worms and grubs?
Bryan, my hero, you are thumb kind of wonderful! I only wish I were still young enough to date you.
If Mom and Dad come to visit, I think Mom should bring cookies and Dad should fix the leaky faucets, unstop the toilet, plane the back door so it closes properly, and shoot any of the neighbors who look at us crosseyed--you know, the things every parent does for his/her kids.
Cary: I know I've told this story before, but I don't know if it was on this blog or elsewhere. If it was here, you're all just going to have to sit through it again.
The late and greatly lamented Andre Norton, SF/Fantasy GrandMaster and author of over 100 books, suffered for most of her life from ailments that until quite recently medical science could not treat successfully. When she complained to one of her doctors that the side effects of the medication he'd prescribed made it difficult for her to write, he replied, "Well, can't you find another hobby?"
Sometimes the medical profession just doesn't get it.
Do let us know what the shrink says about your Mole and Tigress friends? Will we be officially classified as imaginary?
Zaza, did you really know someone who commuted between Tucson and Phoenix ON A DAILY BASIS? That seems a great deal too much, though I suppose one could spend the work week in one and the weekend at home. I suppose that's what our legislators do. Bob knows they don't seem to do anything else!
Mary opined: And Jen, personally I think those 5 heads are quite attractive on you. Not every alien can pull that sort of thing off. Must be a pain, trying to coordinate 5 hairstyle at once
At least we know what to give her for Christmas and birthdays--she can always use more earrings!
Jen-T in the morning, before she's done her heads:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/CoC_55.jpg
cdgjqoo -- Jen-T/Regis talking baby talk to her spawn
the world's starting to spin right again. tal is back, posting pictures. as soon as she threatens me i know all is well in the universe.
Jen-T in the morning....snort. Very funny.
Mary wrote: And Jen, personally I think those 5 heads are quite attractive on you. Not every alien can pull that sort of thing off.
All those extra body parts, so disturbing. And when they start pulling them off... just saying. Hanging out with aliens can be very educational.
and Tal opined: I think Mom should bring cookies and Dad should fix the leaky faucets, unstop the toilet, plane the back door so it closes properly, and shoot any of the neighbors who look at us crosseyed--you know, the things every parent does for his/her kids.
ROFL! Perfect. Thanks, Tal. So glad to have you back among us.
A couple of nice images to start the last day of a long week.
Jen? Is it really snowing up there today? And did they ever get all the power back on in Buffalo?
bw
Mary philosophized ... Must be a pain, trying to coordinate 5 hairstyle at once
Och, lass, but surrrrely there be one hav'n a gud hair day, aye?
Tal, I think we put OH and Lori in charge of creating mole tunnels.
But I'm thinking Mom will more likely expect us to provide the cookies than bring them herself. Dad will likely complain we aren't taking proper care of the car and Mom will *tsk tsk* that we were raised better than that.
*sigh* and it will be just like home.
Me thinks that travel time is relative. I grew up in a small town that was at least an hour from anywhere. It was an hour to Merrillville, where there was family and shopping, and an hour to South Bend with more shopping and concert venues. Of course, once you reach the city limits, it could easily be another 30 minutes to an hour to reach your destination due to traffic.
People used to think I was nuts for driving nearly two hours to my RWA chapter meetings (note to self: must get back on that routine). Of course, I think some of those same people are nuts since they rarely leave town. I have one friend who owned her car for four years and never drove it out of state. Now that's just weird to me.
Did anyone see the news on the demise of the man made flamingo? Apparently the factory that makes these garden ornaments is folding. Maybe someone should warn the guy that J&B are about to make the flamingo a household name. *wink*
rg
McB said..."I think we put OH and Lori in charge of creating mole tunnels."
Yes? Well, I am really good about digging myself into holes. Not quite as good at finding a way to gracefully get back out of them...
The book The Original Pink Famingos: Splendor on the Grass was on my shelf last night when I got to work. Having never mentioned the importance of flamingos to my coworkers, I'm not sure why this particular book crossed my path, but it was full of fun flamingo pictures. Here's the blurb I found about it:
"This is the tale of a wonderful bird, named by his creator phoenicopteris ruber plasticus; a new avian species, now known to all as Pink Plastic Flamingo. The more than one hundred pictures and the text in this volume are the result of Featherstone's request that adoring owners of the pink birds send original photographs that demonstrate their affection for phoenicopteris"
mnmddbd: MN makes designated drivers best drivers.
Oh, I'm excited!
To quote Dilly:
"This is going to be good."
I'll be one of those crickets.
Jen T, I loved the picture of you in the morning. If that is accurate, is it safe to bet you and the DH don't vibrate the bed much in the morning? *Snort*
What a great idea! can't wait for the HW/SW blog redux.
Hope you enjoy our VA weather this weekend. It's sunny and *brisk*. Just perfect.
steph in VA
LOVE the idea-a free writing course! You guys are too good.
Just do writing now-save editors and agents and publishing and promoting next year! (Just my less than 2 cents worth).
nanaimo g - Rest of email said I will be in Seattle area in spring. Maybe we can get together. My home email: shadowhills@softcom.net
Being a Californian, I measure distance in time it takes to get there. For instance, it takes 16 hours straight through to drive to the Grand Canyon from Berkeley. As Cary said, "Car culture."
Tal - so glad you are moving with us.
Tigress - how is your mother?
Louis - Scotish men speak in "kilts" - **SNORT**
Happy weekend everyone!!
OH - get to studying girl!!
Jen T - love the outfit.
fuspdxfi
fussy pdx files
Lou said: 'Tigress - how is your mother?'
Thank you so much for asking. Okay at times, deeply depressed at others. In the spirit of the time/distance discussion above, we live nearly 8 hours away, so it is hard for me to react quickly if she seems very 'down', and talking on the phone does not solve some problems.
I don't think there is any easy answer, but at least she is physically and mentally competent at the moment. If my poor father had been the one who was left alone, it would be easier, because he was naturally optimistic and gregarious in a way that my mother is not.
Sorry, people, for going so off-topic.
:-)
Sounds interesting. You both have a couple of key divergences on craft and approach so that should keep it spirited. I have to agree with Bob-o on the publishing part: it's worth adding because it's part of the atmosphere of the writer - sometimes it's more dense then not - but it's ever present and in some way influences work at each spectrum end and inbetween: the decision to stray from market or write to market and all in the midst.
AgTigress--You never need to apologize. Everyone of us does it and we're all here to support one another.
Speaking of off-topic...
Can I just say how embarrassed I am to be associated with other Americans who make totals a**es out of themselves in other countries. I don't know how many of you know him, but there is a hip-hop artist named Kanye West who, at the MTV European Music Awards yesterday, lost the award for Best Video of the Year and he got up on stage while the winners (a Parisian duo I've never heard of) were accepting their award to complain in a cuss-word filled rant that he should of won because his video cost a million dollars, had Pamela Anderson in it and apparently had special effects where he was jumping over canyons (I've not seen the video, so don't know for sure). He bitched to the press afterwards too and said that the awards show lost credibility by not awarding Best Video to him.
Kanye West is the worst example of an American, but sadly many will look at him and his behavior and say 'oh, typical american.' It drives me up a wall.
And it's not just celebrities. There are many American students at my university and some of them are just as embarrassing, especially this guy in my German class who is loud, obnoxious, competitive and over the top.
Aaaarrrrgghhh!
End of rant.
Tigress, no apologies necessary; especially if it helped. ((hug))
BCB - It snowed yesterday, but didn't stick. We are supposed to get 3 inches tonight...we shall see. To my knowledge, all of buffalo has power back.
So glad I could (or whoever posted the pic) could amuse you today. Actually, I feel just like that picture right now. And I'm just as grumpy.
going back to my corner....
Big [[[[[hugs]]]]]tigress I know how hard that situation is.
Hello to all Newbies. Please feel free to follow us to our new home.
TALPIANNA you make me do the happy dance since you are back. Stay with us please. We are so worth it and we need your wisdom. tigress has been doing her part but we need you too.
Gotta go write. Talk to you later.
qwyob Quick, write your own blog.
talpianna said...
But will our new home have a nice green lawn, suitable for decoration with molehills? And plenty of worms and grubs?
Okay, Tal, you are now our official Landscape Architect. You can put in as many molehills as you like, as long as the grass is green and nicely mowed and the flower beds weeded.
AND...
Zaza, did you really know someone who commuted between Tucson and Phoenix ON A DAILY BASIS?
I don't remember the exact details, but he worked for the state, in Phoenix most of the week, but he was in a satellite office in Tucson maybe one day??? He didn't live in Tucson proper, a few miles closer to Phoenix, which cut off a fair amount of time getting out of town and onto the Highway, but it was still nearly two hours, I believe.
When I commuted from Baltimore to the Pentagon by train, it took me about two hours door -to-door, and I think the driving, walking, riding, changing to two different metros once I got to DC, then the trek up to the Pentagon, well, when I switched to driving, it was shorter time and less aggravating, most of the time. /;+)
mcb said...
But I'm thinking Mom will more likely expect us to provide the cookies than bring them herself.
Mom will crochet us afghans and scarves to keep us warm in the winter. Dad will threaten our boyfriends with the pinkie of death. But, maybe, they both tell us bedtime stories, too.
AgTigress said...
(when talking about her mother)
Sorry, people, for going so off-topic.
Nothing is off-topic here. You know that. ;+) Plus you were asked, and there are others of us who've wondered, but didn't ask. I thought my mom was okay, too, but discovered that she was anything but. She kept it together when I'd come to visit - I'm such a managing type, she went along, and I took that to mean she was fine. So, maybe check for signs that she's not eating, not getting out of the house. If she has friends who visit or someone who takes her out, then she's probably doing okay, just because those things keep a person alert and active.
BUSINESS
Did anyone take a look at the t-shirt from Mary's idea??? No one commented, and I was wondering if we wanted to keep it.
nptdilcz (red)
Nice purple tees don't intellectualize lewd comments, Zoe.
vhaicm (green)
Vincent has an illustrious, cat-like mien.
Yay! My story, Beyond the Shadows, placed first in the Haunted Hearts contest in the Contemporary Gothic
category.
Doing the Snoopy dance. *grin*
rg
rg - WAY TO GO GIRL!!!! Woohoo - good on ya - yay!!!!
zz - I think I missed the link to the t-shirt before. In fact, I might have missed some other business. I LOVE the T-shirt and would probably even wear it! I did not notice if it came in XXL! Should we be checking out something else? Site, Lori's blog???
Off to see my mom this weekend. have a good one all
I missed the earlier reference to the shirt also, but love it. Very adorable. However, in the interest of honesty, CBs would probably encourage each other to blog drunk. Just saying.
Kay T said...
I LOVE the T-shirt and would probably even wear it! I did not notice if it came in XXL! Should we be checking out something else? Site, Lori's blog???
There are probably a dozen different shirts we could put that on, not to mention mugs and stuff. I don't know if that particular shirt comes in larger sizes, but many of the regular tees come up to 4X, so lots of sizes for everyone.
k.l. said...
in the interest of honesty, CBs would probably encourage each other to blog drunk. Just saying.
LOL! Well, we can all pretend to be abstinent bloggers. /;+)
Also, PLEASE NOTE, this is just a sample. The image of the martini glass is blown up so much that the quality is poor. Once we know what we're going to use, our artists will need to give us bigger versions for CP. I can play with them to a certain extent, but we don't want to sell/buy poor quality stuff. Nor do we want to thank our artists by selling things that would reflect badly on their abilities. So, ideas only at this point.
I thought Mary said: Friends don't let friends drink and blog.<